OKC Bombing Trial Transcript - 05/06/1997 10:24 CDT/CST
05/06/1997
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLORADO
Criminal Action No. 96-CR-68
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Plaintiff,
vs.
TIMOTHY JAMES McVEIGH,
Defendant.
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REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT
(Trial to Jury - Volume 81)
컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴�
Proceedings before the HONORABLE RICHARD P. MATSCH,
Judge, United States District Court for the District of
Colorado, commencing at 1:42 p.m., on the 6th day of May, 1997,
in Courtroom C-204, United States Courthouse, Denver, Colorado.
Proceeding Recorded by Mechanical Stenography, Transcription
Produced via Computer by Paul Zuckerman, 1929 Stout Street,
P.O. Box 3563, Denver, Colorado, 80294, (303) 629-9285
APPEARANCES
PATRICK M. RYAN, United States Attorney for the
Western District of Oklahoma, 210 West Park Avenue, Suite 400,
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, 73102, appearing for the plaintiff.
JOSEPH H. HARTZLER, LARRY A. MACKEY, BETH WILKINSON,
SCOTT MENDELOFF, JAMIE ORENSTEIN, AITAN GOELMAN, and VICKI
BEHENNA, Special Attorneys to the U.S. Attorney General, 1961
Stout Street, Suite 1200, Denver, Colorado, 80294, appearing
for the plaintiff.
STEPHEN JONES, ROBERT NIGH, JR., and AMBER McLAUGHLIN,
Attorneys at Law, Jones, Wyatt & Roberts, 999 18th Street,
Suite 2460, Denver, Colorado, 80202; and CHERYL A. RAMSEY,
Attorney at Law, Szlichta and Ramsey, 8 Main Place, Post Office
Box 1206, Stillwater, Oklahoma, 74076, appearing for Defendant
McVeigh.
* * * * *
PROCEEDINGS
(Resumed at 1:42 p.m.)
THE COURT: Be seated, please.
(Jury in at 1:42.)
THE COURT: Government's next witness, please.
MR. HARTZLER: Government calls Steve Soto.
Mr. Mackey will question him.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MR. HARTZLER: Actually, Mr. Goelman.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Steven Soto affirmed.)
THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Would you have a seat, please.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Would you state your full name
for the record, and spell your last name.
THE WITNESS: Steven George Soto. Last name is
spelled S-O-T-O.
THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Thank you.
THE COURT: We'll ask you to speak up a little. You
have a soft voice. Hard to hear.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
THE COURT: Mr. Goelman.
MR. GOELMAN: Thank you, your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Soto.
A. Good afternoon.
Q. Where do you live?
A. St. Louis, Missouri.
Q. What do you do there?
A. I am the acting manager of the money order branch for the
St. Louis accounting service center.
Q. Money order branch of the what?
A. Of the United States Postal Service.
Steven Soto - Direct
Q. How long have you worked for the Postal Service?
A. 18 years.
Q. And what do you do as head of the money order branch?
A. I'm responsible for the processing, maintenance, and
accounting of postal money orders.
Q. In that accordian folder right before you, can you take a
look at that, please, and see if you can find Government
Exhibits 482, 485, 492, 498, and 501.
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recognize what these are?
A. Yeah. These are United States Postal Service money orders.
Q. Turning to the first one, Mr. Soto. Government Exhibit
482.
MR. GOELMAN: Kathi, can I get the ELMO?
THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Yeah.
THE COURT: This hasn't been received, has it?
MR. GOELMAN: Yes, your Honor. It's already been
admitted.
THE COURT: Well, my list is wrong.
THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: That's that list off of the --
THE COURT: Go ahead.
THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: -- last week's witness.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Mr. Soto, can you tell me what the numbers on that top line
mean.
Steven Soto - Direct
A. Yes. The numbers from left to right are -- the first set
of numbers is a serial number of the money order. The second
set of numbers is the date that the money order was issued to
the customer. The third set of numbers is the issue
identification number or location of the post office where the
money order was issued. And the fourth set is the dollar
amount of the money order.
Q. So the issue identification number is 487290?
A. Yes.
Q. Does that correspond to a particular United States Post
Office?
A. Yes, it does. That is Deford, Michigan.
Q. And in order to buy a United States Postal Service money
order, do you actually have to be at that post office in
person?
A. Yes, you do.
Q. What date was this particular postal money order purchased?
A. 11-7-93.
Q. And turning down to the payor area, do you see where it has
the address for Daryl Bridges?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you read that address, please?
A. Yes. 3616 North Van Dyke Road, Decker, Michigan, 48426
slash TDC.
Q. Now, from your experience in the Postal Service, do you
Steven Soto - Direct
know what slash TDC means?
A. No, I do not.
Q. Would that have any meaning at all to the United States
Postal Service?
A. No, it would not.
Q. Can you please turn to Exhibit 485.
MR. GOELMAN: This has also been admitted, your Honor.
THE COURT: Thank you.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Same questions about the top line, Mr. Soto.
A. Okay. The first set of numbers is the serial number. Then
we have the year, month, and day that the money order was
purchased. The -- again, the identifying post office, and the
dollar amount.
Q. Okay. And is that identifying post office 191990?
A. That's correct.
Q. Do you know where that particular United States postal
office is located?
A. Yes. Las Vegas, Nevada.
Q. And under the address of the payee, again, it says
Washington, D.C., then it has a zip code. Has again TDC after
that?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you recognize that abbreviation?
A. No, I do not.
Steven Soto - Direct
Q. What about underneath? What's that COD number used for --
line where it says PH card?
A. That's basically used for a memo field.
Q. Please turn to Government Exhibit 492 now. Same questions,
Mr. Soto.
A. The left number is the serial number. The second set of
numbers is the year, date, and month the money order was
purchased. The third set is the issue ID or location of the
post office, and the fourth set is the dollar amount of the
money order.
Q. Okay. Where is this particular post office located?
A. This is Marion, Kansas.
Q. So on September 29, 1994, this money order was purchased in
Marion, Kansas?
A. That's correct.
Q. Showing you what's already been admitted into evidence as
Government Exhibit 495. Same questions, Mr. Soto.
A. Serial number on the left. Money order purchased date by
the customer, the office or issue ID that the money order was
purchased, and the dollar amount.
Q. And the ID here, 665020.
A. That is Manhattan, Kansas.
Q. Turning your attention to Government Exhibit 498. It's
already been admitted into evidence. What date was this
purchased?
Steven Soto - Direct
A. 1-21, 1995.
Q. And what's the post office identification number on this?
A. 664410, which is Junction City, Kansas.
Q. And finally, Mr. Soto, turn to Government Exhibit 501,
which is also in evidence. Can you tell me when this was
purchased?
A. This was purchased 2-14-95.
Q. And can you tell me where it was purchased?
A. Also Junction City, Kansas.
MR. GOELMAN: May I have a moment, your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. GOELMAN: Nothing further.
THE COURT: Ms. Ramsey, any questions?
MS. RAMSEY: Yes, your Honor.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. RAMSEY:
Q. You don't know who Daryl Bridges is, do you, Mr. Soto?
A. No, I not.
Q. And you don't have any personal knowledge of these money
orders being purchased, do you?
A. No, I do not.
Q. And did you also check to see the next money orders that
were purchased on November the 7th after these two? After the
one that was purchased?
A. On November the 7th?
Steven Soto - Cross
Q. Yes. Don't your records reflect that the next two money
orders were made out to Marife Nichols?
A. Yes, they do, actually.
MS. RAMSEY: No further questions, your Honor.
THE COURT: Any redirect?
MR. GOELMAN: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: Is the witness excused?
MR. GOELMAN: Yes, your Honor.
MS. RAMSEY: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: You may step down. You're excused.
Next please.
MR. HARTZLER: Government calls Terry Eastman.
Mr. Goelman will question him (sic).
THE COURT: Thank you.
(Teresa Eastman affirmed.)
THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Have a seat, please.
Would you state your full name for the record and
spell your last name.
THE WITNESS: Teresa Clare Eastman. E-A-S-T-M-A-N.
THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Thank you.
THE COURT: Mr. Goelman.
MR. GOELMAN: Thank you, your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Good afternoon, Ms. Eastman.
Teresa Eastman - Direct
A. Good afternoon.
Q. Where do you work?
A. Travelers Express Company.
Q. Where is that?
A. Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Q. What do you do for Travelers Express?
A. I am a proof specialist.
Q. Proof specialist?
A. Correct.
Q. What does that involve?
A. I find documentation to prove out different things for
court matters. Get stuff ready for different court things.
Q. What kind of company is Travelers?
A. A money order company.
Q. And how long have you worked there?
A. 12 and a half years.
Q. Does your job involve disputes sometimes between agencies
who sell Travelers money orders and Travelers itself?
A. Yes.
Q. And what do you do for those kinds of disputes?
A. Those, I -- that's where I do most of my proof work for,
showing what documentation we can to explain why the agent owes
us money, and I get that ready for court.
Q. Ms. Eastman, I want you to look at your screen. I'm going
to be showing you exhibits already admitted into evidence. I
Teresa Eastman - Direct
want you to tell me if you can identify them.
A. Yes.
Q. That's Government Exhibit 488.
A. Yes.
Q. What is that?
A. It's one of our money orders.
Q. Also going to show you Government Exhibit 488A and I want
you to tell me if that's just a clearer copy of the face of the
same money order.
A. Yes, it is.
Q. And can you tell when that was purchased?
A. Yes. 8-21 of '94.
Q. Is there anything on the face of this money order that
tells you where that was purchased?
A. Yes.
Q. What's that?
A. The agent number is listed down on the right-hand side
about three-quarters of the way down.
Q. Can you read that agent number into the record, please.
A. It's 0463012921.
Q. So that's the particular Travelers Express vendor that sold
this money order on August 21?
A. Correct.
Q. And does that correspond to a particular store?
A. Yes, it does.
Teresa Eastman - Direct
Q. After the bombing in Oklahoma City, did you receive a
subpoena that asked for information about this particular money
order?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. And was part of that subpoena also requesting information
about where the money order was purchased?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. Did you provide this information?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And how did you go about determining the location?
A. Looking through our purged information, I was able to look
up the store and order the photocopy and pull up the store
sales summary report.
Q. Okay. Travelers keeps records of all the different sales
that its vendors make?
A. Yes.
Q. And what kind of records is this information kept on?
A. Some is held on microfiche. Others is into our computer
system.
Q. Okay. Do you remember if you produced a particular
document in response to this subpoena?
A. Yes.
Q. What did you produce?
A. I produced the photocopy of the money order and the sales
summary report.
Teresa Eastman - Direct
Q. And how was the sales summary report compiled?
A. It is transmitted from the automated machine on a weekly
basis to Travelers Express through the computer systems and
phone lines.
Q. So whenever a store anywhere sells a Travelers money order,
at some time, they send Travelers in Minneapolis record of
that?
A. Correct.
Q. I'm showing you what's been marked for identification --
it's not in evidence -- Government Exhibit 489. Do you
recognize this?
A. Yes.
Q. What is it?
A. That is one of our sales summaries.
Q. Is that in fact the sales summary that you produced in
response to a Government subpoena in this case?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. And is that a record that is made and kept in the ordinary
course of Travelers' business?
A. Yes, it is.
MR. GOELMAN: Move to admit Government Exhibit 489,
your Honor.
MS. RAMSEY: Your Honor, we object as being cumulative
and also she testified it was prepared for litigation purposes.
THE COURT: Well, I didn't understand it being
Teresa Eastman - Direct
prepared for litigation purposes.
MS. RAMSEY: I believe that was the question before
Mr. Goelman --
THE COURT: Well, clear that up, Mr. Goelman.
MR. GOELMAN: Yes, your Honor.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. What time is the information reflected on this record
initially stored?
A. I'm sorry. Can you repeat that.
Q. When is the information that's reflected on this sales
summary -- when is that initially transmitted to Travelers
Express?
A. On a weekly basis and it is stored the day it is
transmitted.
Q. And it's transmitted from whom?
A. From the Dillon's store.
Q. And why does Travelers keep these records?
A. To be able to prove to the agent if there is a dispute upon
money owed so that we can go back and show them.
Q. If you need to get money from your particular vendor for
Travelers money orders they sell?
A. Yes.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, we move to admit Government
Exhibit 489.
MS. RAMSEY: Make the same objection, your Honor.
Teresa Eastman - Direct
THE COURT: Overruled. 489 is received.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Can you tell me where this particular money order was
purchased from looking at this exhibit?
A. Yes, it was a Dillon's location.
Q. Dillon's location where?
A. El Dorado, Kansas.
Q. And did the person who purchased this money order
physically have to be at that Dillon's in El Dorado, Kansas?
A. Yes, they would have.
Q. On August 21, 1994?
A. Yes.
MR. GOELMAN: Nothing further, your Honor.
THE COURT: Questions?
MS. RAMSEY: Yes, your Honor.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. RAMSEY:
Q. Did the person who was at the Dillon's store have to
provide identification?
A. No, they would not.
Q. Not at all?
A. No.
Q. All right. And do you keep track of the money orders
sequentially?
A. As in which -- what do you mean by sequentially? I mean,
Teresa Eastman - Cross
how they were sold or --
Q. Yes. Uh-huh.
A. Well, as they are transmitted through, yes.
Q. When I go into a Dillon's store, perhaps to purchase a
money order, does Dillon's have a batch that are in sequential
order?
A. Yes.
Q. And you know by your records which store has which
sequential number; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell me if the next two sequentially numbered money
orders went to Marife Nichols, or do you know that?
A. I would not know that.
Q. All right. Do you have any idea personally or from your
records who actually purchased these money orders?
A. No, I would not.
MS. RAMSEY: No further questions, your Honor.
MR. GOELMAN: Nothing further, your Honor.
THE COURT: Excused?
MR. GOELMAN: Yes, your Honor.
MS. RAMSEY: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: You may step down. You're excused.
Next, please.
MR. HARTZLER: Government calls John Kane.
Mr. Goelman will question.
THE COURT: All right.
(John Kane affirmed.)
THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Would you have a seat, please.
Would you state your full name for the record and
spell your last name.
THE WITNESS: John Kane, K-A-N-E.
THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Thank you.
MR. GOELMAN: Thank you, your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Kane.
A. Good afternoon.
Q. Where do you live?
A. Orlando, Florida.
Q. Are you married?
A. Yes, I am.
Q. Have any kids?
A. I have a 14-year-old son and an 18-year-old daughter.
Q. What do you do for work?
A. I'm executive vice president for Amnex, a publicly held
telecommunications company that does business in the United
States as well as abroad.
Q. And how long have you worked in the telecommunications
industry?
A. Approximately 24 years.
John Kane - Direct
Q. What part of the industry did you start in?
A. Actually, I started by installing telephones and putting in
phone wiring in commercial office buildings in New York.
Q. Started with the hard stuff?
A. Yes.
Q. After several years in that line of work, Mr. Kane, did you
go into the long distance portion of the industry?
A. About 1983.
Q. Can you describe that a little bit.
A. Kind of got tired of working with wires and was more
interested in -- in what the -- some of the future businesses
were in the telecommunications area. And I thought long
distance was a good opportunity. New growth area. Was a
deregulating industry. And it was a good opportunity for me to
move over there, and I did.
Q. How did you do that move?
A. I formed a company with a couple of friends of mine and
started reselling long distance service.
Q. What was the company called?
A. It was called Tenex.
Q. And how long did you stay with Tenex?
A. We had Tenex for about four years.
Q. What happened after that?
A. We sold that company to someone else through a
consolidation activity in the industry. And then I went on to
John Kane - Direct
Boston, Massachusetts, where I was vice president and general
manager of a company called First Phone of New England which
was a regional long distance company.
Q. And how long did you work for First Phone of New England?
A. Also about four years.
Q. Did you -- were you ever asked to testify before Congress
on issues concerning the telecommunications industry?
A. Yes, I did back in 1994, I believe. I testified on a
Senate bill that was introduced by Senator Hollings called 1822
and it was the predecessor legislation that did not pass. And
the last year -- in 1995, the Telecommunication Act of 1995 was
passed, but it was very similar legislation.
Q. On whose behalf did you testify before Congress?
A. At that time, I was the president of ACTA, which is
American -- America's Carriers for Telecommunications
Association which is a trade association for approximately 200
long distance companies, and I was their representative before
Congress on -- on that matter.
Q. And you were their representative because you were
president of ACTA at that time?
A. I was president and knowledgeable of the subject matter.
Q. Mr. Kane, we've heard about your experience in both the
long distance aspect of the industry and the actual
installation. At some point, did you decide to take your
accumulated knowledge of the telecommunications industry and
John Kane - Direct
start a debit card business?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And would you tell the jury a little bit about what exactly
a debit card is.
A. A debit card is a -- essentially a different way to pay for
a telephone call as opposed to a calling card which is billed
after the -- the call is made. A debit card is paid for in
advance of the services being used by the consumer. It's a
very popular device used in college campuses and low-income
neighborhoods and for people who really don't want to have to
worry about getting a phone bill that can prepay for their long
distance service and it's a convenience feature. Prevents them
from having to stuff quarters into a pay phone to make a
telephone call.
Q. So the calling card that most people refer to as a calling
card, that's more like a credit card?
A. A calling card is a credit device, yes.
Q. And what exactly is a debit card, then?
A. It's a prepaid calling card.
Q. And the time that you went into the debit card business, to
your knowledge, were debit cards being used in the United
States?
A. When I originally began my research into the developing the
business plan for that business, I could not find any debit
cards being used in the United States, although just about the
John Kane - Direct
time I was ready to launch my debit card service, AT&T
announced a similar service.
Q. Where did you get the idea to start a debit card service?
A. Most of the rest of the world other than the United States,
prepaid calling is the only vehicle you can use from a public
calling location, like a pay phone. Most -- most countries,
you have to use an electronic card where you plug it into the
phone that you buy the card in advance and the amount of the
call is deducted from the card physically. Then you take the
card out and take it with you. But since the telephones in
this country are not adapted to plugging an electronic card
into at this point, you have to use in -- this country adapted
that kind of technology to use an 800 number as the access
method of getting onto the service and then by verifying the
PIN number and then by making your long distance call, your
balance is reduced as time goes on.
Q. When you decided to set up a debit card business, Mr. Kane,
what did you do?
A. What did I do? I went to a friend of mine in the business.
Business associate of mine, Jake Gainsboro, OPUS Telecom, and
talked to him about some technology that he had been using for
some time for another application in the communications
business. And gave him my ideas and talked to him about
adapting some of his technology for this debit card
application.
John Kane - Direct
Q. Okay. This technology, was it OPUS technology? Did
Mr. Gainsboro's company actually create that?
A. They had created the original technology, and it was my
specifications and design for the modifications that they used
to adapt their existing technology.
Q. Do you know how widespread use of Mr. Gainsboro's software
is in the telecommunications industry?
A. It's fairly widespread. OPUS Telecom was one of the
original companies to manufacture automatic dialing equipment
in the United States and so they have a very -- have had a very
long run of products that they have introduced. Mostly
specialty things. They are not very -- very visible to the
public.
Q. So you described how you actually set up the debit card
service. How did you market the debit cards?
A. Generally, we were marketing the debit cards in a number of
manners. This is, again, a new business, a new industry. And
we tried a little bit of everything. We tried some retail
distribution through convenience stores, check cashing
locations and those kinds of things. We also marketed the card
through affinity groups, associations, and those kinds of
methods as well.
Q. Okay. When you say affinity groups, what was the
arrangement that you had with these affinity groups?
A. Well, essentially, we would go to one of these affinity
John Kane - Direct
groups and -- and suggest that they would have an opportunity
to make some revenue sharing off of these prepaid cards if they
would market them to their membership or their subscriber base;
and typically, they would advertise the product in their --
whatever their -- their newsletter or mailer or membership
meetings, people would sign up for the service and they would
receive a card and a part of the revenue that was developed by
the use of that card would go back to that group. And
contribute to whatever -- whatever it was, whether it was a
nonprofit or for-profit.
Q. Whatever cause they sponsored?
A. Whatever cause.
Q. Was one of the affinity groups that you sold to Liberty
Lobby?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. Were you personally involved in the marketing of the debit
card to Liberty Lobby?
A. No, I wasn't.
Q. And do you have any personal knowledge of when Liberty
Lobby started offering its debit card?
A. I don't know exactly when they started offering it. I know
the first batch of cards was activated in November of '93.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, may I approach?
THE COURT: Yes.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
John Kane - Direct
Q. Can you look inside that folder, please, Mr. Kane, and see
if you can find Government Exhibit 484, which has already been
moved into evidence.
A. 44 or 484?
Q. 484.
A. Okay.
Q. Do you recognize what that is?
A. Yeah. This is the photocopy of the fulfillment kit that
the Spotlight, which is the -- I believe the magazine or
newsletter that Liberty Lobby sent out to their membership with
the prepaid calling card information. When somebody sent back
one of the coupons or the mail orders, this is the package they
received back.
MR. GOELMAN: May I publish, your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Turn to page 2 of that packet, please, Mr. Kane. What's
World Call 2000?
A. World Call 2000 is a service-marked name of CCT, which is a
corporation, Computer Calling Technology, Inc. It was the
product that West Coast Communications sold to -- to Liberty
Lobby's subscribers.
Q. Okay. West Coast Communications was --
A. West Coast Communications was the -- was the parent
company, CCT was the subsidiary, and CCT had a -- product
John Kane - Direct
registered name was World Call 2000.
Q. At the time that the debit card was offered, were you
employed with WCT?
A. Yes.
Q. I want you to take a look at the instructions for how to
place a call. Tell me if that accurately reflects how someone
would make a call on the debit card system that you designed.
A. Yes, it does.
Q. Is there a PIN number reflected here?
A. Yes, there is.
Q. And how many digits did WCT's PIN numbers have for their
debit cards?
A. In this particular program, there were 14.
Q. And was that a confidential PIN number?
A. Yes -- yes, it is.
Q. I want you to take a look down at the bottom of the actual
card where it says "assist." Do you recognize that phone
number, (800)576-8896?
A. That's a -- one of the customer service telephone numbers
for the debit card customer service group.
Q. What about the name written next to it?
A. The name there is -- says Keith Bower. He was one of my
employees who was responsible for customer service.
Q. And if a customer called and had a complaint that they were
having technical difficulties completing calls, what would
John Kane - Direct
Mr. Bower do?
A. Mr. --
MS. RAMSEY: Your Honor, we would object unless he has
personal knowledge of that.
THE COURT: Well, do you have instructions as to what
he was to do?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Then you may testify to it.
THE WITNESS: Standard procedure for a customer
calling in for a complaint would be based apparently -- would
be based on what the customer's trouble was. Types of troubles
that these kinds of users would have from time to time would
involve not being able to get through to a number they were
calling or having a problem with the balance of funds that were
on their account were the two primary issues.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. And if Mr. Bower got a complaint from a customer, did he
have instructions sometimes to make calls using that particular
PIN number?
A. Yeah. The standard process would involve replicating the
customer's activity to try to simulate the problem so the
corrective action could be taken.
Q. Mr. Kane, are you familiar with a company called Caretel?
A. Yes, I am.
Q. And do you know what Caretel's role in the debit card
John Kane - Direct
system was?
A. Yeah. They -- WCT provided customer service during
business hours and Caretel was a contract labor company that
provided the balance of the 7-by-24 customer service
requirements for WCT.
Q. And what would happen, Mr. Kane, if a customer called up --
a debit card holder called up, and said that he was being
charged for calls that he never made or someone had stolen his
PIN number?
MS. RAMSEY: Your Honor, we would make the same
objection call. That this is speculative. He was not the
person on the other end. He has no idea what was actually
going on.
THE COURT: He can testify to what the routine was.
THE WITNESS: Okay. The standard process if someone
said they had a problem with a balance on their card and
suspected that someone was using their -- their funds was to
take the balance, transfer it to another card, give the
customer a new PIN number and credit the customer for any calls
that we were able to identify the customer did not make.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Do you know whether the Daryl Bridges Spotlight card --
account ever had a new PIN number awarded to it?
A. No, it did not.
Q. Mr. Kane, what was your position at the time of the bombing
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in Oklahoma City?
A. It was senior vice president for operations for WCT
Communications.
Q. How large a company was WCT?
A. We were about a $150 million telecommunications company.
Q. How did you come to start working for WCT?
A. The principals of WCT and I had known each other through
the industry for a number of years. And when I was bought out
at First Phone and started the prepaid calling business, they
had expressed an interest in my joining them in an
operations -- executive operations position and eventually came
to acquire CCT from me in part of an employment deal where I
went to work for them.
Q. And CCT was the company that administered the debit card
system?
A. That was the subsidiary that operated the debit card
business.
Q. Okay. What happened to the debit card business when you
went to WCT?
A. I sold it to them as part of the transaction. They
acquired it from me.
Q. Did you retain management control over that part of the
business?
A. For a while, yes.
Q. And after the bombing in Oklahoma City, did you become
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aware that one of your debit cards might have had something to
do with the bombing?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. How did you first become aware of this?
A. I received a telephone call from Marty Bishop at MCI, who
was in their toll fraud and security group and he wanted to
know who the subscriber was that was associated with an 800
number which was (800)793-3377 and I identified for him that
that number was owned by WCT and was being used for an internal
application for a calling card program. For a prepaid calling
card program.
Q. Okay. Did you determine which particular group had
1(800)793-3377?
A. We looked it up in our database and we were able to
identify that the Spotlight program was where that number was
assigned.
Q. Okay. What are -- who actually owned the particular 800
number?
A. Well, I don't know that you can own an 800 number. It's
a -- it's a resource, national resource and it's assigned to a
customer. We were the a -- WCT was the assigned customer from
the standpoint of legal use of that number.
Q. And did WCT use this particular 800 number for any of its
other customers besides Spotlight?
A. No, it did not.
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Q. When investigators -- or did you eventually get in touch
directly with people who were investigating the Oklahoma City
bombing?
A. Yes. Subsequently.
Q. And did they want anything else besides information as to
who subscribed to that 800 number?
A. Well, they first wanted to know who subscribed to the
number, and I told them that it was WCT's number. They wanted
to know what the number was used for. And I explained to them
it was for a prepaid calling service. And then they wanted to
know subscriber information about the people using -- that
could possibly use that number.
Q. Did you ever get a request from them, asking for a specific
phone number?
A. Yes. Early on, they gave me several phone numbers that
they wanted to see whether or not that 800 number and through
the prepaid calling process had ever called or any calls had
been made from certain numbers.
Q. And what was the first particular call that you were asked
about?
A. They gave me two telephone numbers. One of them was a
number for a motel, and the other number was for a truck rental
location.
Q. Do you remember the name of the motel?
A. I believe it was Dreamland.
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Q. And do you remember if they indicated a date that they
wanted you to check for calls?
A. They were interested in calls on the 14th of April, 1995.
Q. And what did you do in order to determine about calls
involving the Dreamland on April 14, 1995?
A. We went to one of our on-line data processing systems where
we store records, billing records, and looked up the 800 number
and pulled what we call an inquiry or rated call inquiry out of
the -- out of those billing records and physically looked for
the phone number from the Dreamland in those records.
Q. Did you find any calls from the phone number that the FBI
had given you?
A. Not on the 14th.
Q. Okay. What did you find?
A. I did find a call from a number similar to the number I was
given that was early on --
MS. RAMSEY: Your Honor, I would object that that's
not responsive to the question asked.
THE COURT: Overruled. Continue.
THE WITNESS: I found that there was a call on the
bottom of the report for the early morning of the 15th from a
telephone number that was similar to the number from the
Dreamland. Once I found that number, I called Marty Bishop
back at MCI because he had access to a reverse directory and
used the reverse directory and he looked up the number in his
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directory and said that that number billed to the Dreamland
Motel. I told them that I had a record of a call from there.
And he immediately conferenced in some investigators from the
Secret Service.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Mr. Kane, the call that you found from the Dreamland, what
date was it on?
A. It was on the 15th.
Q. And when you talked to investigators, what did they want
when you told them about this call?
A. They wanted to know what -- what prepaid calling card user
had made the call and where the call was made to.
Q. And did you find that information for them?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. Do you remember what that information was?
A. The -- that call was made from the Dreamland and was to a
number that ends in 3400, I believe were the last four digits
of the number.
Q. Did you eventually determine who the particular Spotlight
subscriber was who made this telephone call?
A. The -- these prepaid cards were sold mail order, so we had
the ability to figure out that information; and the subscriber
was Daryl Bridges in a Decker, Michigan, address.
Q. Okay. Mr. Kane, I'd like to talk a little bit about how a
debit card system actually works. If you -- someone writes a
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check and they don't have enough funds to cover it, it can
bounce a check. Can someone do that with a debit card?
A. Well, on the debit card system, the -- there's an amount
initially established for the account. Whatever the person
prepaid. And every time a call is made, the amount for that
call is subtracted from that initial balance. That balance can
be added to. If the customer has that feature or elects to use
that feature and if there is no money available in the account,
or if there is inadequate money in the account to make the call
that the customer is trying to make, they will get a message
played back that they have insufficient funds or it can't be
made at the time of making the call.
Q. So if they don't have any money in the account, they just
will physically not be able to complete the call?
A. That's correct.
Q. And are you familiar with the technical process whereby the
system checks to see how much money a particular caller has?
A. Yes, I am.
Q. I'm going to ask you to look at Exhibit -- Government
Exhibit 504 for identification.
Is that a depiction of the basic process?
A. It's fairly simplistic, yes.
Q. Would it help you explain to the jury how this process
works?
A. Yes. I can start here.
John Kane - Direct
Q. Mr. Kane, the jury can't see it yet.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, may I introduce Government
Exhibit 504 into evidence?
THE COURT: This is illustrative?
MR. GOELMAN: Yes, sir.
MS. RAMSEY: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. 504 may be used to illustrate
the testimony.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Okay. Mr. Kane, go ahead.
A. Okay. The telephone on the far left-hand side would, in
this picture, indicate the originating telephone. The
subscriber would pick up the phone, dial the 800 number for the
Spotlight calling program, the call would be received at a WCT
switching center and routed through the switch, which looks at
the 800 number and makes a determination as to what to do with
the call, how to deliver the call.
800 numbers for Spotlight were routed to the --
through the OPUS system where various identification of the
subscriber would take place and a balance check would take
place. The OPUS system would then initiate a call back into
the WCT system, and WCT would then route that call out to the
right-hand telephone over the least costly route so, in theory,
we could -- we could make a profit by doing that.
Q. And what would happen if the caller didn't have any balance
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in his account?
A. They wouldn't be able to complete any calls.
Q. At what point in this process would it stop?
A. They would be stopped at the -- in the box where it says
dollar check.
Q. Okay. I think there's a light pen up there. Probably --
A. This?
Q. Not that one.
A. This?
Q. That's it.
A. Okay.
Q. Can you see the box labeled 3911?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Can you just put an X there and explain exactly what
that is.
A. This 3911 is a numeric -- I'd love to put an X here, but it
won't do it. 3911 is a number that we assigned to the prepaid
calling system so we could route telephone calls to that --
that prepaid calling system. WCT's switch operates off of
numbers and --
Q. Mr. Kane. What's a switch you keep referring to?
A. In this particular case, this is a -- this is about a
30,000-port tandem switch which is used in processing of long
distance telephone calls, some of which were prepaid calling
card type calls; and if they were a prepaid calling type call,
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they would be routed to the OPUS platform.
Q. So a switch is the thing that makes the phone call go
through?
A. Essentially, yes.
Q. Okay. And what about 3910? What exactly does that
signify?
A. 3910 is a numeric identifier for the trunk group that was
assigned to receive calls from the prepaid calling platform
that were destined to be terminated back out to the network.
Q. So basically, 3911 records were incoming, 3910 records were
outgoing from OPUS?
A. That's accurate.
Q. Now, that -- you said that showed a very basic process.
Are you familiar with some of the intermediate steps --
A. Yes, sir.
Q. -- in this process?
A. Yes.
Q. Ask you to take a look at Government Exhibit for
identification 505. It should be up there among all the other
ones.
MR. GOELMAN: This is not in evidence, Kathi.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Do you recognize that, Mr. Kane?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And is that a schematic demonstrating how WCT and OPUS
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would process debit card calls?
A. This is a higher-level look of the previous exhibit.
Q. Would it help you explain this slightly more detailed
process to the jury?
A. Sure.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, I move to admit for
demonstrative purposes Government Exhibit 505.
MS. RAMSEY: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: You may do so.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Mr. Kane, taking that pen, can you please trace the route
that a phone call would take when it -- from the time that it
leaves the outgoing phone?
A. Sure. The -- again, the upper left-hand telephone -- this
will not mark. Now it'll mark. Would -- would represent the
originator for the call. Line No. 1 would indicate the -- the
connection between that telephone and the local telephone
company.
Everybody's home phone is physically connected by some
wires to a -- what they call a local telephone company. The
local telephone company provides the dial tone which you begin
dialing over. The local telephone company would receive the
800 number that would be dialed from the telephone on the
left-hand side; and in this case, we're dealing with an 800
telephone number, dial number.
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The local telephone company doesn't know who that 800
number belongs to at that time. So they launch a -- an
electronic query to a database, much like validating a credit
card. They go off and go out to this -- to this NASC which is
a box over here. And there's a database kept there that
identifies for that local telephone company who to route the
call to. So once they have passed that information on to the
local telephone company, the local telephone company then will
route the call to WCT for this particular 800 number.
Now, WCT's switch will, upon receiving this inbound
telephone call which contains a lot of information about where
the call was made from, including the telephone number and the
type of telephone that's making the call -- WCT's switch will
look at that 800 number and it'll look at its internal
database, make a decision as to where that call needs to be
delivered to. In the case of this particular 800 number, this
switch would take the -- the call and connect it to arrow 5,
which are actually some physical wires that were connected from
the WCT switch to the OPUS calling platform.
Q. Mr. Kane, what would the caller be hearing at this point?
A. The caller at this point -- right up until the OPUS
equipment started playing its voice prompts, the customer would
be hearing nothing.
Q. So on arrow 5, the caller still would have heard nothing?
A. Right. But at the moment the OPUS platform comes on line,
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they would immediately start hearing voice recording.
Q. And what would that voice recording say?
A. In this -- for this 800 number, it would say, Welcome to
the Spotlight calling service or something of that nature.
Q. Mr. Kane, do you know how long steps 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5
would take or how long it would be from the time that caller
put in the 800 number until the caller heard the welcome to
Spotlight prompt?
A. That duration of time would probably be about seven to ten
seconds.
Q. And what would happen after the caller heard that
particular prompt?
A. Once they hear the initial greeting prompt, they are
prompted to enter the PIN number that's printed on the back of
the card. Once the caller puts that PIN number in, there's an
intermediate arrow here in the -- in OPUS where OPUS would go
and check its internal database and essentially, its financial
records to see whether or not the PIN number that was put in
was valid; and if the PIN number was valid, then how much money
was available in that particular account for making telephone
calls.
Once they -- that information, by the way, is then
played over a voice prompt, synthesized to the customer so the
customer knows how many dollars are remaining in their account
on every telephone call. Once that voice prompt is played and
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the subscriber is prompted to dial the number they want to
call, the OPUS platform then calculates the number of dollars
remaining in the customer's account and the -- place that the
call was being made to, and tells the caller in minutes how
long they are going to be able to talk based on their balance
so they could -- they can decide whether or not they wanted to
continue with the call or whether they are going to hang up or
let the call go through.
Q. So there's a series of different voice prompts and
greetings?
A. Yes, there are.
Q. What happens after OPUS determines that there is enough
balance to make a phone call, tells the caller how many minutes
they have? What does OPUS do with the signal then?
A. Then OPUS -- if the caller dials a long distance number,
then OPUS would take that call and through arrow No. 6, put the
call back into the WCT switch, bypassing the dialed number back
to WCT and WCT would look at that dialed number as a new
incoming call and select the least costly route which is
indicated by No. 7 to -- to deliver that call to the
destination telephone number. En route to that destination
telephone number, the call would pass through another at least
one local telephone company's central office where that
telephone would be connected to.
Q. Mr. Kane, you said those initial five steps until the
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caller would hear the greeting would take about seven to ten
seconds. How long could the whole process take from the time
the caller dials -- finishes dialing the 800 number until the
phone rings on the other side, if in fact, it's put through?
A. It's a pretty wide variable there based on how long the
caller resided in the OPUS platform and listened to voice
prompts. The minimum would probably be someplace from 15 to 20
seconds. And we've had callers who were in the OPUS platform
for -- it could be up to a minute before they successfully
dialed all the digits they needed to dial.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, we have a blown-up poster of
this particular exhibit which I'd like to put on the easel.
It's Government Exhibit 506.
THE COURT: Okay.
MS. RAMSEY: Your Honor, we would object as being
cumulative. It's already been published to the jury.
THE COURT: Well, I don't know. What do you intend to
do?
MR. GOELMAN: Mr. Kane is going to need to be
referring to this basic exhibit throughout his presentation,
your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Put it up. 50 --
MR. GOELMAN: 506.
THE COURT: -- 6.
MR. GOELMAN: Thank you.
John Kane - Direct
THE COURT: I think the jury can see it, but maybe
nobody else can.
MS. RAMSEY: Your Honor, might I move also, so that --
THE COURT: Yes. Okay.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Is that the same process that you just described, Mr. Kane?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. Can you -- I don't know if there's a laser pen there or
pointer, whatever you prefer using. Can you describe -- inside
the OPUS box, it looks like there's a picture of five different
computers there.
A. Right. There's a way this system works. The system has a
central computer, for lack of a better term, which contains the
customer balance, account balance information, and the customer
database information with respect to where the callers are to
be making calls to and from -- to. Not from.
Each of the other four smaller computers were call
processors. The call processor computers were actually
physically connected by wires to the WCT switch. And those --
those computers where the calls actually would come into, where
they would collect information, they would ask the central
computer for validation of that information, and then they
would -- these little computers would connect the calls back
out to the lead.
Q. Which of those computers, if any, had the information about
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the account number, balance, that kind of thing?
A. That's all stored in the -- in the central computer here.
Q. Thank you. I think you said when you were describing this
process that the WCT computer and the OPUS computer actually
physically connected?
A. They were physically connected with wires to each other.
Q. Okay. Were they -- were there particular places on each of
the systems that the wires ran from and to?
A. Yes, there were.
Q. Okay. Can you describe this a little bit.
A. The -- in the Los Angeles switch center where all this
equipment was located, there were physical equipment in
those -- in those rooms and off the back of the WCT switch,
there were wires run from this trunk group 3911 that
represented specific ports or specific locations on the
equipment over to each of these call processing computers at
OPUS where they were physically connected to specific ports on
the OPUS equipment.
Q. Okay. You used the term "ports." Can you just real
briefly describe what you mean by that?
A. A port is the smallest increment of physical telephone
connection within a switching system such as this. It's the
minimum requirement for a person to be able to talk over. It's
the equivalent of a couple of wires that you have in your house
connected to your -- to your home telephone.
John Kane - Direct
Q. Mr. Kane, can you please look at Government Exhibit 507 --
marked for identification 507. Does that illustrate the unique
relationship between the ports on the different systems?
A. It's representative of one such relationship.
Q. Okay. Would this help you explain the whole system of
ports to the jury?
A. It would, yes.
MR. GOELMAN: Move to admit Government 507 for
demonstrative purposes, your Honor.
MS. RAMSEY: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: You may use it.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Referring to the screen, Mr. Kane, can you please describe
how the ports on each computer relate with each other.
A. Yes. The -- the 800 call would come into the switch as --
as we previously discussed. The switch would assign 39 --
trunk group 3911 to that particular call. In this example
here, within trunk group 3911, there were a number of ports
assigned to that trunk group. This representation here, port
No. 11284 would be the port that was used. That port was
physically wired and connected to port 1405 in the OPUS system
which was, in turn, physically wired to port No. 11296 in the
WCT system for the terminating portion of the call.
Q. Okay. And is this just for one particular call, or would
OPUS port 1405 always correspond to WCT 3911 for 11284 and 3910
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port, 11296?
A. They would always correspondence.
Q. So the ports are monogamous effectively?
A. There's a one-to-one relationship that's constant.
Q. And if you knew one out of these three ports -- if you knew
a call went through one out of these three ports, could you
determine the other two ports that the call also passed
through?
A. Sure.
Q. How many such ports were in use on each of these three
locations while the debit card platform was up and running?
A. I think it ran up to as many as about 130.
Q. 130?
A. 130.
Q. How would the system decide which port a particular call
was going to go to?
A. The WCT system was responsible for making that assignment
or routing the call to the OPUS equipment. The WCT system was
set up in such a way that it would use the least used port or
what we call the most idle port. The theory behind that, to
keep the -- the use of the equipment balanced and even.
Q. So when a call came in to the 3911 place, it would go to
the port that had been used --
A. Least.
Q. -- least. And then -- but once it went to that particular
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port, it had to go to a certain OPUS port and 3910 port?
A. Right. The physical relationship between these three sets
of numbers is always constant.
Q. Did you document what that physical relationship was?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. Ask you to turn to Government Exhibit 508 for
identification. Do you recognize that, Mr. Kane?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. What is it?
A. This is a -- a reference document that identifies which
port number in 3911 was connected to which OPUS trunk number,
in turn connected to which 3910 port.
Q. How were these relationships between these ports
determined?
A. They were determined by physical inspection and
verification of WCT's telephone records at my request
subsequently after beginning the investigation.
Q. Physical inspection, that means actually looking at where
the wire runs from one computer to another?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And is this an accurate listing of the relationship between
the ports of the different systems?
A. Yes, it is.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, we move to admit Government
Exhibit 508.
John Kane - Direct
MS. RAMSEY: Your Honor, our only objection would be
this was prepared for litigation purposes only.
THE COURT: Overruled. 508 is received.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Mr. Kane, I think we're all familiar with a regular long
distance phone bill we get monthly, the type of information
that's contained on a long distance phone bill such as date,
time, duration, from number and to number. Did WCT send its
debit card customers a bill that had all that information on
it?
A. No. No bills were sent to debit card customers.
Q. Why is that?
A. They prepaid for the service. It was not required.
Q. Did WCT keep records where the same information was
contained?
A. We kept numerous billing records, transaction records in
the normal course of business.
Q. And was all the information that's contained on a long
distance phone bill contained amongst these records?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Turning back to the poster, Mr. Kane. How many records are
created by each call that goes through this system, the various
steps in this process?
A. This is a very simplified picture and this picture would
indicate there would be at least five records created. The
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local telephone company here would -- would create a record for
their own billing purposes so they could bill the long distance
company for the privilege of using their switching equipment
and network dialing of the 800 call.
WCT would create one record here because as far as WCT
was concerned, this is an originating call. This was a
terminating call. So therefore, we had a billing transaction
that took place in our switching center.
OPUS would create a billing record so we could keep
track of debiting the accounts of the customers and keeping
their balance information in order.
And then WCT would create a fourth record because as
far as WCT's switch was concerned, 6 would represent a new call
coming into the WCT switch.
7 would show an outbound call from WCT switch so this
transaction becomes a billing record, as well.
And then the local telephone company here would also
keep track of that information -- information from WCT's call
so that they could bill WCT for using their telephone network
to deliver a call to the telephone at the end. 5 on this
picture.
Q. 5 on this particular picture?
A. Yes.
Q. Leaving aside the local phone records for the moment, are
you familiar with how WCT and OPUS stored the three records
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that you talked about there, the 3911, the OPUS record, and the
3910?
A. Yes, I am.
Q. And referring back to the exhibit, if you need to, when is
the OPUS record -- when is the information contained in the
OPUS record first recorded by the system when a call is made?
A. The -- the record is initiated when the user successfully
puts in their PIN number and then dials a long distance number,
and the record is completed when the transaction ends. The
phone -- the person hangs up the phone.
Q. What happens to this information then?
A. The -- the information is stored in a magnetic medium on --
on diskettes and on hard drives in the system.
Q. And why is this information retained?
A. Well, in order to keep track of the balance for the
account, it's necessary to keep track of the call records.
It's also necessary in case a customer calls and complains
about their balance not being correct. We can demonstrate to
them the telephone calls that are assigned to their account.
Q. And do you know what information is included in the file
that OPUS makes for each telephone call?
A. Information regarding the -- the date, the time, the dialed
number, the account number, the port number that the call was
received on is some of the information that's contained.
Q. Okay. You said the dialed number and the account number?
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A. Yes.
Q. So this single record will tell you both the account that
was used and the number that was called?
A. Yes, it will.
Q. And you said this was stored on magnetic tape and on a hard
drive; is that right?
A. That's correct.
Q. After the Oklahoma City bombing, Mr. Kane, were you -- did
you receive a subpoena that asked you to retrieve information
from these OPUS files?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And did you do that?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. How did you do that?
A. We went in to the -- to the system and requested the
information. And the system gave us that information in a file
that we then transferred onto diskettes.
Q. What did you do with these diskettes?
A. We submitted them to the Government.
MR. GOELMAN: May I approach, your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Showing you what's been marked for identification
Government Exhibit 511. Do you recognize that?
A. Yes. Those are the diskettes we submitted.
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Q. How do you know they are the same diskettes?
A. I signed and initialed them and dated them.
Q. Are the files that are stored on those diskettes business
records that OPUS makes and keeps in the regular course of
business?
A. Yes, they are.
MR. GOELMAN: Move to admit Exhibit 511, your Honor.
MS. RAMSEY: Your Honor, we would object to the
admission at this time. And ask that you take this under
advisement. This is dealing with some of the briefing
materials that we've given the court.
THE COURT: Well, I understand that; but this comes in
in pieces.
MS. RAMSEY: I understand that, your Honor; but we
would object to it as being inaccurate.
THE COURT: Overruled. 511 is received as what the
business records of OPUS reflected.
MR. GOELMAN: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: That's what it's offered for.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Can you also find what's been marked for identification
Government Exhibit 512.
A. Yes.
Q. And what's this?
A. This is a summary of some of the information that is
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contained on the record. It tells you the port count number,
destination number, city and state, date and time, duration of
the call.
Q. Mr. Kane, is this list an accurate portrayal of some of the
information that's contained on the diskettes that you just
talked about?
A. Yes, it is.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, we would move to admit
Government Exhibit 512 just to assist the jury in remembering
what type of information is stored on these diskettes.
THE COURT: Well, I don't understand how it was
prepared.
MR. GOELMAN: May I inquire, your Honor?
THE COURT: Well, sure.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Do you have any personal knowledge of how this particular
exhibit was prepared?
A. Yes. This is, I believe -- was taken from the file format
information that we provided to the Government so they could
understand what these records were.
Q. And is this a reprinting of some of the information that
was contained in the file format that you initially provided
us?
A. Yes, I did verify that.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, we move to admit Government
John Kane - Direct
Exhibit 512.
MS. RAMSEY: Your Honor, we would object. I don't
believe this clarifies anything for the jury.
THE COURT: You'll have to tell us what was done. I
don't know. He just says, "I verified it." What does that
mean?
MR. GOELMAN: Yes, your Honor.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Mr. Kane, what steps did you take to verify that this
information is really reflective of information contained on
those three disks?
A. I took the file format printout that we provided to the
Government with the disks, initially, and compared them -- the
two side by side and confirmed that this information is
contained in the information that I originally sent in to the
Government.
Q. Okay. Where did you get that original file format layout?
A. It was printed out off of our call processing system
that -- we just asked the system to tell us the file format for
the records, and it prints that out. It's part of the
electronic record.
THE COURT: Did you look at two computer screens? Is
that what you're saying?
THE WITNESS: I looked at two pieces of paper, your
Honor.
John Kane - Direct
THE COURT: You looked at printouts from them?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Where are they?
MR. GOELMAN: The printouts that Mr. Kane looked at?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. GOELMAN: We don't have them here, your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, how can Counsel verify this without
them?
MR. GOELMAN: Counsel has already been provided with
them, your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, that's what I wanted to know.
MS. RAMSEY: I don't believe we've been provided with
the printouts. We've been provided with a copy of Government's
Exhibit 512.
MR. GOELMAN: The printouts refer to -- Your Honor,
the printouts refer to a more complete file layout; and they
were provided some months or years ago to the defense.
MS. RAMSEY: I don't know that, your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, who does?
MS. RAMSEY: Well, I'll have to go back through the
files and look; but I don't believe the printout has ever been
provided. But I still don't believe this is going to be
anything that is going to clarify anything for the jury.
THE COURT: Well, it's obviously going to be used in
preparation of other exhibits.
John Kane - Direct
Right?
MR. GOELMAN: Yes, your Honor.
MS. RAMSEY: Your Honor, we would object.
THE COURT: Well, you'll have an opportunity to verify
the information that's in here from the printouts.
MS. RAMSEY: Certainly, your Honor.
THE COURT: We'll proceed instead of stopping here.
MR. GOELMAN: Thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT: I'll receive it, 512, subject to the
opportunity to verify.
MR. GOELMAN: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: Proceed.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Mr. Kane, referring to Government Exhibit 512, does this
indicate that both the call -- the number that was called and
the account number are included in OPUS files?
A. Yes.
Q. Turning back to the poster, Mr. Kane, if the OPUS file
retains all this information, is there anything that is not
contained within the OPUS file?
A. OPUS doesn't know anything about the sequence from 1
through 5. It's invisible to the OPUS system.
Q. Okay. What particular piece of information about a phone
call does OPUS not include in its own files?
A. The originating telephone number from the phone that made
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the call.
Q. Is there a WCT file that does contain this information?
A. Yes, there is.
Q. Which file is that?
A. It's a file we call 3911.
Q. And when does the 3911 first record this information?
A. The 3911 file, an individual record in that file is
created -- begins creation when the -- the WCT switch receives
the call, at this point here, No. 4. It begins to accumulate
information regarding the calling activity, starting with the
dialed number, which is the 800 number, and the originating
telephone number.
As the call progresses, it -- it accumulates more
information about that call, where it was routed, what port it
went to, where it was connected to, how long the call was in
service, the date, etc. Quite a bit of information, actually.
Q. Mr. Kane, is it true that users of the debit cards that you
provided would get charged a flat rate per minute?
A. I believe this calling program was a flat rate program,
yes.
Q. So why would WCT retain information as far as the number
from which the call originated?
A. Well, in this particular case, WCT retained the information
because it was in the business of billing people for 800
service, among other things. And the 800 service transaction
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that took place between items -- between 1 and 5, we happen to
own the business that OPUS was providing for us; but in many
cases, we had customers who would be where the OPUS equipment
would be, so we would need to bill that 800 call to a -- to a
customer. So it was kept in normal course of business. All
call records were kept for billing purposes at a minimum.
Q. So this was a billing record that you essentially kept to
bill yourselves?
A. That's -- as it turns out, that's what it was.
Q. And I'm going to ask you to turn -- actually, I'm going to
approach if -- disks. 509.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, may I approach?
THE COURT: Yes.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Showing you what's been marked for identification as
Government Exhibit 509. Do you recognize that, Mr. Kane?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And what are they?
A. These are diskettes which we put the 3911 records on so we
could submit them to the Government. They came off of our data
processing system where we store those records.
Q. What kind of information is contained on those diskettes?
A. The information contained on these diskettes includes the
date of the call, the time of the call, the 800 number, the
port number the call was connected to and from, and various
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other information that's required for billing, duration of the
call.
Q. When you say the port number, you're talking in this case
about which particular port?
A. Yes.
Q. The 3911 port?
A. Yes.
Q. Were the files that you saved onto these diskettes made for
a business purpose?
A. Yes, we recorded all our -- we kept records of all our
telephone calls.
Q. And were they kept in the regular course of business?
A. Yes.
MR. GOELMAN: Move to admit Government Exhibit 509,
your Honor.
MS. RAMSEY: Same objection as before, your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, let's go a little slower here. As I
understand your testimony, you took certain information out of
your database to create these disks.
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: And what was -- how did you do that?
THE WITNESS: We selected the common information out
of the record that pertained to the time, date, the port
number, the dialed number, all the unique information that --
parts of the record we didn't submit were internal device
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numbers that we used in the internal workings of the switching
equipment. They are not relevant for billing.
THE COURT: And was this for a particular period of
time?
THE WITNESS: Yes, it was.
THE COURT: And what was that period of time?
THE WITNESS: The period of time that these records
encompass is December of 1993 through April 17, I believe, or
19 of 1995.
THE COURT: And is this for all of the ports that
you've shown us in this other exhibit?
THE WITNESS: These are for all of the -- all the
calls on these diskettes will have gone to one of the ports in
the previous exhibit. These are only the WCT records that
pertain to the 800 number that was assigned to the Spotlight
calling card.
THE COURT: Understood.
THE WITNESS: Otherwise, they wouldn't fit.
THE COURT: And then is there a printout of this?
THE WITNESS: Yes, there is.
THE COURT: Of these disks?
THE WITNESS: There's a printout of the physical
calls, or printout of the way the calls are organized.
THE COURT: Well, when -- you prepared or had prepared
these four disks; right?
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THE WITNESS: Right.
THE COURT: Then was this printed out?
THE WITNESS: I don't believe any -- we didn't print
them out.
THE COURT: Well, how do you verify that these disks
correctly reflect what's in the larger database?
THE WITNESS: Oh, we looked at them on screen,
physically.
THE COURT: This time, you looked at them on a screen?
THE WITNESS: We looked at the other records -- I
thought the question before was about the file format itself,
not the information.
THE COURT: No. I was talking about the information.
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I misunderstood. The
information was physically verified.
THE COURT: That's why we have the problem that they
don't have those printouts.
MS. RAMSEY: Same objection, your Honor. We do have
these disks, though.
THE COURT: You do have the disks.
MS. RAMSEY: We have these disks, yes. We don't have
the printout of the file layout is what we were objecting to.
MR. GOELMAN: Can I have one moment, your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes.
Well, you have that; right?
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THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: You made a printout of the file layout.
THE WITNESS: Oh, yes. Yes.
THE COURT: Why hasn't that been provided to defense?
MR. GOELMAN: I'm sorry, your Honor?
THE COURT: Why hasn't that been provided to the
defense?
MR. GOELMAN: The printout? It has, your Honor.
THE COURT: Of the file layout?
MR. GOELMAN: It has, your Honor.
MS. RAMSEY: Your Honor, we'll have to check and see.
It may have been provided; but we'll do that at the break, your
Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. Well, I'll receive it subject to
this verification; but I'm relying on the testimony of this
witness for the verification of these disks, which was made,
according to your testimony as I understand it, through this
looking at the screens.
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Okay. I mean, I don't know how else to
deal with this modern stuff.
MS. RAMSEY: Your Honor, we would interpose the same
objection that we made previously subject to the briefs that
we've submitted to the court.
THE COURT: Yes. All right. Proceed.
John Kane - Direct
MR. GOELMAN: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Mr. Kane, I'd ask you now to find Government Exhibit marked
510 for identification.
A. I have it.
Q. And is that nothing more than the -- a list of some of the
information contained on these diskettes that you just talked
about?
A. Yes, it is.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, we'd move to admit
Government Exhibit 510.
THE COURT: Is this what you were just talking about?
THE WITNESS: This is -- there are two different
things here. One is looking at the first record, and one is
a -- essentially a road map to how to look at that information
and understand which -- what information is contained in the
record. The record doesn't have -- the electronic record
doesn't have a word called "authorization" in it. It has a
number, and it's a comma, and it has more numbers and another
comma, and so forth. And this is just to tell you how -- what
is in each of the fields.
THE COURT: But what those numbers really mean in --
in language.
THE WITNESS: In language, yes, sir.
THE COURT: Other than digital language.
John Kane - Direct
THE WITNESS: Other than digital.
MS. RAMSEY: Your Honor, we have received a copy of
this, and we don't have any objection to 510.
THE COURT: All right. Good.
MS. RAMSEY: I'm not trying to be argumentative, your
Honor.
THE COURT: No. I know you're not. I'm not
suggesting that you are.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Mr. Kane, is Government Exhibit 510 basically a table of
contents for the 3911 records?
A. Partially, yes.
Q. And does it list some of the information that is contained
on those diskettes?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. Does that information include the originating number for
the particular phone call?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. And does it also include the 3911 port?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. For that particular phone call?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. So with the OPUS record, Mr. Kane, you can get everything
except for the originating number; is that right?
A. That's correct.
John Kane - Direct
Q. And then with the 3911 record, you can get the originating
number?
A. That's correct.
Q. What about 3910? What do you get from the 3910 records?
A. 3910 is just a repeat of the OPUS record. The -- it also
gives us a port number that ties back to the original 3911
record, since the three ports are physically connected to each
other.
Q. And at what point in the process of a phone call is the
3910 information originally recorded?
A. It's much like the 3911 record, except the call would
begin -- the 3910 record would begin with an incoming call from
Arrow No. 6. The record would develop over the time that the
number was dialed by the OPUS system into the WCT system. The
3910 record would then be populated with the outtrunk, outport,
and result of the call, whether it was answered, busy, and the
duration of that call, time and date, etc.
Q. Is there anything on the 3910 record relevant to these
particular calls that the OPUS records don't contain?
A. The only thing that's on the 3910 that would have any
value, really, is the port number on the 3910; and since the
3910 and the 3911 are records that were created off of the same
system, they are under one clock and one clocking device.
Q. So Mr. Kane, if you -- that's all the information that you
get from 3910 record in addition to the OPUS record, why does
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WCT keep 3910 records?
A. Again, WCT thinks that Arrow No. 6 is a customer. It
doesn't know it's itself. The equipment doesn't keep --
doesn't know that. It's -- it's just -- it's supposed to keep
track of billing transactions and activity. And it sees 6
through 7 as a billable transaction, and we keep that
information for billing purposes and for trouble verification
purposes for customers.
Q. Okay. Mr. Kane, did you retrieve some information from
3910 files in response to Government subpoena?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. And can you please describe how you went about extracting
that information from the 3910 files.
A. Yes. In this case, we took all of the records on -- from
the OPUS Spotlight calling program. We looked at all of the
dis -- all of the telephone numbers that had ever been dialed
by the OPUS system, and we ran it against the 3910 records and
all the records that matched -- we submitted to the Government.
Q. So why didn't you just do a search based on the particular
800 number if you were retrieving all Spotlight records?
A. Well, the 800 number is not in the 3910 record, so we
couldn't do it that way. That information wasn't available.
All of the call records that the debit -- OPUS system made for
Spotlight and all of the other 50-some-odd customers that we
had on the OPUS platform would have used 3910 as the way their
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calls would have been terminated. So anybody who was a
Spotlight calling card holder, whoever dialed a number that was
dialed by a nonSpotlight calling card holder would -- both
those call records would end up in that 3910 file that was
submitted to the Government.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, may I approach?
THE COURT: Yes.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Mr. Kane, you're being shown what's been marked for
identification Government Exhibit 513. Tell me if you
recognize, that, please.
A. Yes, I do.
Q. What is it?
A. These are the records from the 39 -- the 3910 records that
we were just discussing. They were taken off one of our data
processing systems and submitted -- put on diskettes and
submitted to the Government.
Q. How do you know those are the same diskettes?
A. I physically verified them and looked at the records.
Q. How do you know those are the same diskettes that you --
A. They are signed by me. Signed and initialed and dated by
me.
Q. And would your answers to his Honor's questions about the
previous record, about Exhibit 510, be the same for the
verification procedure for these particular records?
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A. Oh, yes, they would.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, we move to admit Government
Exhibit 513.
MS. RAMSEY: Same objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: 513 is received.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Mr. Kane, can you now look for Government Exhibit 515 and
tell me if you recognize that.
A. Yes. I have it.
MS. RAMSEY: What number was that?
MR. GOELMAN: 515.
MS. RAMSEY: 15?
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. What is it, Mr. Kane?
A. This is, again, a file record layout for some of the
information contained in the 3910 records this time.
Q. And can you tell the Court, please, how this particular
information was extracted, how you found out what kind of
information was contained and where it was on the 3910 files.
A. I don't understand the question.
Q. Can you explain how you know that the 3910 files actually
had the information that this piece of paper describes them
having?
A. Well, I verified that the format -- this information was
from the format that we submitted to the -- to the Government.
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Q. Same as you did with the 3911 files?
A. Yes, sir.
MR. GOELMAN: Move to admit Government Exhibit 515,
your Honor.
MS. RAMSEY: No objection.
THE COURT: 515 is received.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. And referring to Government Exhibit 515, Mr. Kane, does
this indicate that the 3910 records include a lot of the same
information that the other records include, including call
date, time, duration?
A. Yes.
Q. Does it also include the to number?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. And does it also include the particular 3910 port that was
used for each call?
A. Yes, it does.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, this might be a convenient
stopping place before I launch into the minutia of computer
records.
THE COURT: Are you suggesting our attention span may
be --
MR. GOELMAN: My own, your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. You may step down, sir. We're
going to take a recess.
John Kane - Direct
And, members of the jury, we'll take our afternoon
recess. I might explain to you, you know, you've heard the
words "foundation" at times; and much of what is going on here
is attempting to build foundation for other exhibits which may
or may not come into evidence and which may or may not be
understandable to you, but we have to have your patience as we
go through this process to determine what may be admissible
later in -- in a way that you may better understand and perhaps
you do this, although I'm not suggesting you don't understand
everything that's been said and shown to you here. You may
understand it. But I just wanted you to be certain that what
we're doing here is what's called building a foundation for
what may come later and of course, some of these objections
have been made and some of the rulings that I've made have been
subject to the opportunity for the defense to verify some of
this information. So that's what's going on.
And you don't need to discuss that during this recess.
As a matter of fact, you shouldn't discuss it or anything else
connected with the case during this time because as, of course,
is the usual caution, please keep open minds and -- and stay
patient with us as we develop the issues in this case.
You're excused now, 20 minutes.
(Jury out at 3:11 p.m.)
THE COURT: Okay. We'll be in recess until 32 after.
(Recess at 3:12 p.m.)
John Kane - Direct
(Reconvened at 3:32 p.m.)
THE COURT: Please be seated.
(Jury in at 3:32 p.m.)
THE COURT: Please resume the stand.
You may continue, Mr. Goelman.
MR. GOELMAN: Thank you, your Honor.
Your Honor, may we have Exhibit 506 placed back up on
the easel?
THE COURT: Yes.
All right.
MR. GOELMAN: Can the Court see that as well?
THE COURT: I have my own copy here.
MR. GOELMAN: I forgot.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. You were describing, Mr. Kane, how the 3910 search was
conducted and those documents that you retrieved and saved onto
diskette for the Government. You said that you took all the
common destination numbers. Can you please explain that.
A. Sure. What we did was we went to the OPUS system and we
went to the database of all customers for Spotlight; and we
obtained from that system all of the telephone numbers that any
of those customers had ever dialed. We then took those numbers
and we put them in a file and we compared all of the 3910
records that we had in the WCT files to the other file. And we
pulled only those 3910 records where a telephone number that
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had been called by any Spotlight user matched.
Q. So the starting point for that search was the OPUS files?
A. That's correct.
Q. And what if when -- if a Spotlight call was made and there
was no OPUS record for that particular call: Would the 3910
for that call have been retrieved in that initial search?
A. The only way you could get a 3910 record was if someone
using an OPUS card had made a call at some time.
Q. A Spotlight card?
A. Spotlight card.
Q. And when you were first reconstructing the Daryl Bridges
account records after the bombing, Mr. Kane, did you discover
that there had been a call made for which there was no OPUS
record?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Can you tell us a little bit about how you made that
discovery?
A. At the time we were recovering or looking for these records
in our data processing systems was relatively recent to the
bombing. And from a time standpoint, these calls were still on
our active data processing systems. They had not been yet
backed up and stored off of the live on-line system. So we
were actually going into the system and typing in the 800
number and asking it to tell us all of the calls that had been
made to the 800 number.
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And through the process of reviewing those numbers and
trying to compare them to the -- to the OPUS Bridges account,
we found a call on the 14th -- I believe it was the 14th --
Q. Mr. Kane, let me understand this process. You were using
the 800 number to call up records of all recent Spotlight
calls?
A. That's correct.
Q. And you were actually looking at a screen on which
information about these calls was displayed?
A. One call at a time.
Q. And how did you -- why did you think this particular record
was significant?
A. Well, the -- I actually was looking at the screen and had
found a call that originated from a particular telephone number
and pushed the carriage return button or the enter key; and the
next record came up on the screen. And I thought I was
looking -- I didn't think the screen had changed, because a lot
of the elements in the record were identical; so I actually
toggled back and looked at the previous record and determined
actually that they were -- they were two different records that
had come from the same telephone number. And they were
sequentially back to back in our files.
Q. They were sequentially back to back. What does that
indicate?
A. There were no other calls to the Spotlight 800 number
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between these two calls.
Q. And after you determined that these records did, indeed,
reflect two separate phone calls, what did you do?
A. We obtained the -- this was a 3911 record that we were
looking at. We went and obtained the corresponding 3910 record
from our systems, on-line systems as well.
Q. And what did you do after finding the 3911 and the 3910 for
this particular call?
A. At that point, we had thought that we had found another
Spotlight account, different than the Bridges account that had
made this telephone call.
Q. Why did you think it had been made by another Spotlight
account?
A. Because we did not have a Bridges record that matched to
the -- the second call.
Q. So did you take any steps to try to find out who this
second account belonged to?
A. Yes. We searched the OPUS database system with all the
available information pieces that we had, and we could not find
a match in the OPUS system for that record.
Q. Earlier, when describing the process a call -- that a call
goes through when it's made, you said that OPUS created a
record for every telephone call made. Is that right?
A. That's correct.
Q. If there is no OPUS record, how do you even know that the
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phone call took place?
A. Well, I have in this process -- we have three records that
relate to each telephone call. For this particular call, we
only have two records. The OPUS record is missing.
Q. You have the 3911, 3910, but not the OPUS record?
A. That's correct.
Q. How do you know that this is a Spotlight call, as opposed
to just another debit card?
A. Well, on the inbound 800 call on the 3911 file, the 800
number corresponds to the Spotlight calling program, so those
are the only ones we were looking at. And by using the ports
on that matrix that we previously talked about, we were able to
know which port a call would have come back from the debit card
platform on that would relate to that inbound call.
We essentially had a call from here to here that we
knew the originating telephone number and we knew that the call
will be delivered to the OPUS system; and the call went on for
over 8 minutes, so we knew that there was a connection.
And then we had another call that came from here and
went out here. It could only have come from the OPUS system
that went on for a little bit over, I believe, close to 8
minutes but not quite.
So I had the port numbers from here and here that tied
together, the dates and times tied together, and the durations
tied together. And we were -- we could not find an OPUS record
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for that particular call.
Q. So you had a call that was definitely made using a
Spotlight debit card and you didn't have any OPUS record for
that call?
A. That's correct.
Q. Do you know why you would have a 3911 and a 3910 on a
particular phone call and you'd be missing that intermediate
record?
A. I do now. I did not know then.
Q. And what's your understanding of the reason for that?
A. The -- when we discovered that this record appeared to be
missing, we contacted the OPUS people and had several of their
software engineers and myself on conference call for several
hours where we researched this pretty thoroughly through their
data systems and comparing them with ours. At some point in
that process, we discovered that this record was actually
intentionally discarded by the system as part of a restarting
process that the processor in this center section was doing
three times a day. That system would actually restart its
process three times a day; and any calls that were in progress
during that process were not kept in the system. They were
discarded by the system.
Q. Mr. Kane, you mentioned that you researched this in
discussions with personnel from OPUS.
A. Yes.
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Q. Who is the president of OPUS?
A. Jay Gainsboro.
Q. Mr. Gainsboro, again, was your partner in establishing the
debit card platform?
A. Yes.
Q. When you were looking at that information about these two
phone calls on the screen, what kind of record were you looking
at?
A. The 3911 record?
Q. That's -- that's how you originally noticed that the call
existed?
A. We were looking at what we call a CDR minute out or a CDR
display. CDR is "call detail recording," or "call detail
record"; and that's the raw record that the WCT switching
system creates for every call that passes through, whether it's
billed or not.
Q. These are the records that are later used to create other
records such as 3911, 3910?
A. Yes.
Q. And what would happen if WCT did not keep the call detail
records?
A. We wouldn't be in a position to bill our customers or to
service our accounts.
Q. After the bombing, Mr. Kane, did you pull up and print out
the CDRs from -- for the Bridges account for a certain amount
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of time?
A. Yes. I believe we printed those CDRs out between March 25
and April 17 or 19.
Q. And did you print out all the CDRs for all Spotlight
customers, or only ones relevant to the Daryl Bridges account?
A. Only ones related to the Bridges account.
Q. How did you determine which CDRs described calls that were
made on the Daryl Bridges account?
A. We had a printout from the OPUS system of the Bridges
account. We used that as a guide.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, may I approach?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. GOELMAN:
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Mr. Kane, do you have Government's Exhibit 517 up there?
It's about 50 pages.
A. I do.
Q. Do you recognize that?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. What is it?
A. These are the copies of the printouts that I obtained off
of our CDR display system, data processing system that WCT used
to keep track of its business.
Q. And are these CDRs records that WCT makes for a business
purpose?
John Kane - Direct
A. Yes, they are.
Q. Are they kept in the regular course of business?
A. Yes, they are.
Q. Did you view this information on screen before printing it
out?
A. Yes, I did.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, we'd move to admit
Government's Exhibit 517.
MS. RAMSEY: Same objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled. Received, 517.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. When you printed out the CDRs, Mr. Kane, did you print out
the records relating to both of those phone calls that took
place on April 14 that you were describing?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And could you turn to page -- pages 41 and 42, please.
Do you recognize that particular series of records?
A. Yes. It has my notes on it. And this page 41 represents
the 800 call to the Spotlight calling card number received from
a telephone which based on this record is a pay phone and came
from a (913)762-9765 -- is the telephone number.
Q. Okay. Can you tell which number was called?
A. Not from this record. The record from the 3910 side of
this particular call went to (913)258-3400.
Q. And that was the 3400 you were talking about earlier?
John Kane - Direct
A. Yes, it is.
Q. When you initially saw this particular screen of
information, the 3910 relating to that phone call, was that
phone number familiar to you?
A. Yes. This phone number was in the Bridges records that we
had previously printed off of from the OPUS system.
Q. Okay. Was that the called number for the very first call
that you found on April 15, 1995?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. And can you tell from these records when this phone call
ended?
A. Sure. This phone call ended at 7:53:06. That's military
time. So it would be in the morning.
Q. Is that West Coast time, East Coast time?
A. This would be Pacific time.
Q. Turning to pages 43 and 44, the same exhibit, Mr. Kane. Do
you recognize what call these records refer to?
A. These records refer to the call that we could not find an
OPUS record for and they begin coming from the same pay
telephone, (913)762-9756 and the call begins at 7:53:33.
Q. So that call begins at 7:53:33 and the previous call ends
at 7:53:06?
A. That's correct.
Q. That is a 27-second difference, sir?
A. Yes, sir.
John Kane - Direct
Q. During these 27 seconds, did some mechanical process have
to happen?
A. The second call would have originated from the same phone
and would have gone through steps 1 through 4 in order to have
this separation of time. So this process had to take place up
here.
Q. Everything until the 800 number actually is connected?
A. Yes.
Q. And that is the process that you described as taking 7 to
10 seconds earlier?
A. That would be accurate, yes.
Q. Did this wait of 7 to 10 seconds along with the caller
disconnecting and then the caller dialing the 800 number
again -- did all that have to take place in this 27-second
window?
A. It would have all taken place in the 27 seconds.
Q. Mr. Kane, besides these call detail records or CDRs, did
you provide the Government with another WCT record relating to
that particular phone call, the second phone call on April 14,
1995?
A. Since the dialed number off -- from the second record was
not a number that had ever been called by a Spotlight card
user, it was not part of the 3910's we originally had
submitted; and we actually provided -- prepared a diskette and
submitted this one record separately at a later date.
John Kane - Direct
Q. You said the 3910 was not part of that group of 3910's that
you had already provided?
A. Not initially, no.
Q. What about the 3911 for this particular phone call? Is
that part of the group of 3911s that you provided?
A. Yes.
Q. Why would the 3911 for this phone call have been provided
but not the 3910 for this phone call?
A. The criteria for creating the 3910's was that only 3910
records that had a terminating number or a called number that
had ever been called by someone using a Spotlight calling card
were in that database. This called number was unique and had
never been called by another Spotlight user; so therefore, it
wouldn't -- wasn't part of the database that could be found.
Q. And you indicated that you saved this particular 3910 on
another disk?
A. Yes.
MR. GOELMAN: May I approach, your Honor?
THE COURT: Yes.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. You're being shown what is marked for identification as
Government's Exhibit 514. Do you recognize that, Mr. Kane?
A. This is the diskette I submitted, signed and dated by me.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, we move to admit
Government's Exhibit 514.
John Kane - Direct
MS. RAMSEY: Same objection.
THE COURT: Well, I'm confused by this testimony.
Would you explain again why the 3910 and the 3911 are
different with respect to this call?
THE WITNESS: 3911 was included in the general -- the
overall records we submitted.
THE COURT: Yes.
THE WITNESS: Because it was based on the 800 number.
The 3910 records we initially submitted were only
withdrawn from our systems based on a telephone number that
anybody who had a Spotlight card who had ever made a telephone
call to -- so all those telephone numbers became a universe of
numbers. Then when we went to our 3910 file, we only extracted
from there calls that matched any number that anybody from
Spotlight had ever made. We were only trying to find a third
verification for the 3911 record and the OPUS record.
THE COURT: Okay. And then to create 514, you did
what?
THE WITNESS: 514, the information was in our big 3910
file; but it was not in this subset file because no one from
Spotlight had ever called that.
THE COURT: I see. So you just pulled this out.
THE WITNESS: Just pulled it as a separate record.
THE COURT: All right. The objection is overruled.
514 is received.
John Kane - Direct
MR. GOELMAN: Thank you, your Honor.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Mr. Kane, how many phone calls did WCT process between
December, 1993 and April, 1995?
A. I think we calculated that to be close to 2 1/2 billion.
Q. And are all 2 1/2 billion reflected on the 11 diskettes
that you've provided here today?
A. No.
Q. How many of those calls are included on those diskettes?
A. I think the total is somewhat less than half a million.
Q. Would you please turn to what's been marked for
identification as Government's Exhibit 516.
A. 516? Okay.
Q. Does that reflect the relative number of each type of
record that you provided to the Government in connection with
this case?
A. Yes, it does.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, we'd move to admit
Government's Exhibit 516 for demonstrative purposes.
MS. RAMSEY: No objection.
THE COURT: All right. Received.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Mr. Kane, from that exhibit, looks like WCT provided about
156,000 OPUS records and only 140,000 3911's and 105,000
3910's. Is that about right?
John Kane - Direct
A. That's what the numbers say, yes.
Q. Can you explain the different numbers of each kind of
record?
A. Sure. There was 140,000 calls that were dialed during this
period of time to the specific 800 number for the Spotlight
calling program. Once a subscriber had successfully entered
the telephone -- their PIN number, then they could make
multiple calls without hanging up, dialing the 800 number and
putting their PIN number in a second time. It's a feature
commonly referred to as "reorigination." So when the first
call ended, if the subscriber did not hang up, they would be
greeted with a voice prompt that gave them the option of making
another call without hanging up.
Q. So if you only dialed into the 800 number once during these
series of calls, how many 3911's would be produced?
A. Just one.
Q. And how many OPUS records could be produced for that one
3911 record?
A. Theoretically, it's infinite till you run out of money.
Q. What about 3910's? There seem to be significantly less
3910's than there are of the other two records.
A. All right. Some of the transactions in OPUS are people
calling in and obtaining a balance check, finding out they
don't have enough money to make a call, changing their name,
becoming disconnected for one reason or another; so they may
John Kane - Direct
not have a completion on that particular call.
Also, the calls in 3910 would only be there if there
was a completed call; so therefore, busies, ring/no answers,
would not appear in the 3910.
Q. And so 3910 file, even though it might include some
numbers, some non-Spotlight calls, if the destination number
was common with Spotlight calls, it still has significantly
less than the other two kinds of records because of ring/no
answer, and busy calls?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. You've testified, Mr. Kane, that there is no single record
that retains all the information that would be retained in the
regular long distance call. Is that right?
A. That's correct.
Q. You've also testified that you can get all this information
from amongst the records that WCT produces. Is that right?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Would you please turn to Government's Exhibit 518 for
identification.
What is that, Mr. Kane?
A. This is a diagram that shows some of the different data
elements that are part of each of these records.
Q. And would this help you explain how you can extract
information from each of these records to produce one unified
record of phone calls?
John Kane - Direct
A. Yes.
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, we move to introduce
Government's Exhibit 518 for demonstrative purposes.
MS. RAMSEY: Your Honor, if I might have a moment.
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. RAMSEY: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. 518 is received for
demonstrative purposes.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Mr. Kane, if you had a 3911 file, had a 3910 file, and had
an OPUS record for a particular phone call, what would you need
to construct one unified record?
A. Here, initially we would match up the date and the port
numbers, then look at the durations, and then finally look at
the times.
Q. Okay. And you would match up which -- which record would
you begin with?
A. Actually, we would begin with the OPUS record from the
Bridges account, since those are the records we were trying to
find the originating telephone numbers for.
Q. And would you match it up with the 3910 first, or would you
first go to the 3911 file?
A. No, we would go to the 3911 file, look for the date and
look for the port number match and then look at the other data
elements in the records to verify that they were -- that was
John Kane - Direct
the correct record.
Q. So to do this process, would you have to go through all
140,000 or 156,000 or 100 records in the relevant group?
A. Well, within the relevant groups, we would only look at the
date that we were looking for; so in -- if we were looking for
a particular day, we would only look for the records from that
date to begin with. And then we would--we'd begin the process
with a smaller pool of records.
Q. Mr. Kane, you've mentioned the role of ports several times.
If there were about 100 -- if there were about 140,000
Spotlight calls made -- I think that's what the number 3911's
was you indicated --
A. Correct.
Q. -- about how many Spotlight calls per day on average, if
you've calculated that?
A. I believe I've calculated that to be about 250 to 275 a
day.
Q. And how many Spotlight calls would each port system handle
on that given day?
A. You have 275, let's call it, and we had 130 potential
places where that call could have been delivered, so 2 to 4
calls per day per port.
Q. And how does that ability to determine which port the call
came in -- how does that affect this reconstruction process
that you've described?
John Kane - Direct
A. Well, once you match the date and the port, then it's a
relatively simple process of matching the duration and the
times of the call beginning and ending to -- and quite
candidly, there is no other call record that's a reasonable
match. The time is too far away or the duration of the call is
significantly different.
Q. Once you matched an OPUS record with a 3911 record, what
would you -- what, if anything, would you use the 3910 records
for?
A. Well, we would then confirm that we had the correct 3911
record by using that port matrix and making sure that the 3910
record had the right port number on it and match the 3911.
Q. Mr. Kane, you just said that this reconstruction process
was -- I think you said easy, or not hard?
A. Tedious.
Q. Would you say it was fun?
A. Fun? No, I wouldn't say it was fun.
MR. GOELMAN: Nothing further, your Honor.
THE COURT: Ms. Ramsey.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. RAMSEY:
Q. Mr. Kane, how long have you been in the telephone industry?
A. About 24 years.
Q. And how long have you been in this type or this branch of
the telephone industry?
John Kane - Cross
A. I believe I began the prepaid calling business in 1992.
Q. And you've certainly garnered a lot of experience in these
two areas; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you understand all this; right?
A. Yeah. I think so.
Q. How many hours did it take you to prepare this tedious
information, as you call it?
A. I think overall, we calculated at one point that we had
somewhere in excess of a thousand hours, potentially as many as
2,000 hours overall.
Q. And how many people did you have working with you?
A. At different times, we had between 6 and 12 people.
Q. Okay. So it took you a considerable amount of time; is
that correct?
A. Yes, it did.
Q. It wasn't a matter of pushing a button and coming up with
the matches between the 3911, OPUS, and 3910. Is that correct?
A. No, it wasn't.
Q. Okay. When were you first contacted by the FBI or a
governmental agency regarding this particular case?
A. I'm not sure if it was Friday or Saturday following the
bombing.
Q. Okay. And what were you requested to do at that time?
A. I was requested to -- to disclose the subscriber for the
John Kane - Cross
A. 800 number.
Q. And what is the 800 number that you're talking about? Is
that just the general Spotlight number?
A. The specific Spotlight number.
Q. Do you have any idea from your records who the specific
Spotlight subscriber is?
A. I did not at that time.
Q. Okay. But you have since learned that. Is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. What is the Spotlight number?
A. (800)793-3377, I believe.
Q. And that was general to Spotlight --
A. Specific to Spotlight.
Q. But to all members who had the Spotlight calling card?
A. That's correct.
Q. They would all use that 800 number. Is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And when you were first approached by the Federal Bureau of
Investigation, I assume, what did you tell them that you could
do?
A. In what regard?
Q. With regard to this 800 number?
A. They wanted to know if I could identify call records
associated to that number, and I told them yes.
Q. All right. And did you provide that information for them?
John Kane - Cross
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And how long did that take you to provide for them?
A. I provided them information at various times during the
process of obtaining these records but immediately provided
them with the Daryl Bridges account information, which was in
one place.
Q. All right. And how many times did you end up speaking with
members of the FBI?
A. Oh, I have no idea. Many.
Q. Under a hundred, or over a hundred?
A. Probably over a hundred.
Q. It took a lot of time with regard to each particular call?
A. Sometimes in groups and sometimes in particular calls.
Q. And then you would do some work on a group of calls or a
particular call and then give that information to the FBI. Is
that correct?
A. It was more oriented towards days.
Q. Okay. And then were you told to collect more information
about other days?
A. Well, I was asked to collect all of the information. And I
told the FBI that based on the fact that the information was
stored on off-line systems, on cartridges and disk packs in
various different locations, that we had to go and literally
get the correct cartridges and get the information off of those
cartridges.
John Kane - Cross
Q. And were -- if I understand you correctly from your direct
testimony, each of the 3911, the 3910, and the OPUS were all in
different areas or different cartridges, so to speak, as far as
storage is concerned?
A. The -- yes.
Q. And you went to each one of those and pulled out
information with regard to the Daryl Bridges Spotlight calling
card. Is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. And did you have to write some kind of software
in order to do this, or was this something that you had already
done?
A. Initially, we were using the process of our on-line system
and thus the CDRs that we had talked about previously.
Unfortunately, that was a very time-consuming process. And the
Government asked us to figure out some way, if we could, of
speeding up that process.
Q. Was the CDR process that you talked, about the last records
that were introduced, I believe, as 517 -- that is the usual
record that would come out prior to your doing some kind of
program?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And so that was what was taking too long to read?
A. It was taking too long to get them, yes.
Q. Okay. And how did you devise this other method of getting
John Kane - Cross
the information?
A. Once we had obtained a number of the CDRs, we looked at the
relationship between the different computer systems and the
different record-keeping areas and we wrote a relatively simple
program that would -- based on criteria of the records we had
already reviewed -- would go out and get those records out of
our systems in a much more prompt fashion.
Q. So would you say it was also tedious to come up with the
origination point data or the 3911, 3910, and OPUS information?
A. Tedious in the beginning; but once we knew what we wanted
to get from our systems, it wasn't that tedious.
Q. And were these calls billed at 25 cents per minute
regardless of where they were from or where they were to?
A. Within the OPUS system, I believe that's correct.
Q. Okay.
A. Except that would be domestically. For international
calls, the rates would be different.
Q. Okay. So you would agree that it was a difficult job, at
least until you did the software. Is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Had you ever been asked by anyone, either a governmental
official or anyone in private industry, to do this before?
A. To find phone records?
Q. In this fashion?
A. No.
John Kane - Cross
Q. Okay. Is the OPUS system something that you have any
control over?
A. Control over?
Q. Management decisions, things of that nature?
A. Oh, yes. OPUS is a software provider. We own the
equipment and the right to use it.
Q. And you pay so much each month or year in order to provide
or in order to receive that service; is that correct?
A. Yes. That's correct.
Q. What would a person hear when it goes on this exhibit
that's behind you from the telephone to the local phone
company, where No. 1 is --
A. What would they?
Q. Hear.
A. Dial tone.
Q. And then when you go to 2, would anything be heard?
A. No.
Q. 3?
A. No.
Q. And then to 4?
A. No.
Q. When they finally reach 5 is when they actually hear
something on the other end of the telephone, other than the
dial tone or nothing. Is that correct?
A. That's correct.
John Kane - Cross
Q. And that would change for whatever system had that
number -- is that correct -- whether it be a Spotlight card or
some other debit card?
A. Yeah. The voice prompts are customized to the program.
Q. Okay. And how long did you say that that would take?
Approximately 7 seconds, I believe you said.
A. 7 to 10 seconds.
Q. 7 to 10 seconds. Okay.
Now, when we get to step 5 and we go into OPUS, that
is when a person's account balance or remaining balance is told
to them?
A. After they've entered their PIN number successfully.
Q. Okay. And then when we go to 6, into the 3910, they are
also told what time is left on the card. Is that correct?
A. They are told how long they can talk to the particular
number they dialed, yes.
Q. And is it usual and customary when someone might have a
short period of time left that they would hang up at this time?
A. Not necessarily, depending on what they were trying to
communicate.
Q. If someone were making a phone call and they had a certain
number (sic) of time left on their debit card and they went
over that time, what happens?
A. Well, they couldn't go over the time because the system
would physically disconnect.
John Kane - Cross
Q. All right. So no one ever went over that specific amount
left on their calling card. Is that correct?
A. That's the way the system works.
Q. Do you know who designed that system?
A. Jay Gainsboro.
Q. And how long did you say you had known Mr. Gainsboro?
A. I've known him probably in excess of 10 years.
Q. And this was the procedure that was in effect in December
of 1993 through April of 1995; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And I believe you testified on direct examination
that a person would not receive a bill.
A. That's correct.
Q. Would they receive anything other than the warning when
they dialed to the 3910 about how much time was left?
A. Receive?
Q. Would they get a statement saying you only have $20 left on
your debit card; do you want to fill out this coupon and send
it back?
A. What they would get was every time they called in and
successfully put in their PIN number, their balance would be
played to them.
Q. I understand that. But did they receive anything else?
Did they receive something in the mail --
A. Oh, no.
John Kane - Cross
Q. -- saying their balance was low?
A. No.
Q. So they would not have any contact at all with the
Spotlight calling card system with regard to their balance; is
that correct?
A. Not directly.
Q. Okay. Now, the accounting system dealing with the 3910 was
set up not to send out bills; correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Okay. And isn't it true that anyone who knew the PIN
number would be able to call through this procedure and through
6 and find out what the balance was and how much time was left
on the account? Is that correct?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. Now, is it traditional in a debit card system that certain
forms of moneys are used to add balances to their account?
A. Yes.
Q. And what would those be generally?
A. Generally, the consumer can pay cash for the card at the
point of purchase, or if the service that they're obtaining
allows for them to order the service by mail order, they can do
that. Some debit cards allow for the card to be recharged or
for the balance to be increased by use of a commercial credit
card, VISA or Mastercard, American Express.
Q. Is it also traditional in this type of system that money
John Kane - Cross
orders or personal checks would be used?
A. No, it's not.
Q. All right. What would normally be used, then? The VISA?
A. VISA or MasterCard.
Q. And how would that be done? By sending it physically into
the company, number, or --
A. No. Traditionally, the VISA or MasterCard type recharge or
increase of balance is done by interactivity with the system
directly. You type in your VISA number.
Q. Can you do that when you're getting your balance in the
3911, OPUS, and 3910 routine?
A. You can't do it on the Spotlight calling program. It's not
a feature of that particular program.
Q. How would somebody do that?
A. In the Spotlight calling card?
Q. Uh-huh.
A. In Spotlight calling card, they had to send funds to a bank
that was acting for Spotlight and collecting these funds; and
then the bank would submit an electronic request to us to add
dollar amounts to certain account numbers.
Q. Was that an 800 number that somebody would call?
A. The --
Q. To increase their balance?
A. No. They would send -- physically send something to the
bank, money.
John Kane - Cross
Q. How do you physically send your credit card to the bank, is
my question.
A. I don't believe they were using credit cards. I believe
they were using in this particular case -- you had to send in a
check, or you had to use the credit card at one point when you
initially requested the service.
Q. All right. So how would you increase your balance if you
used a credit card?
A. The amount would be electronically submitted to us by the
bank.
Q. All right. But how does the bank get notice is my
question.
A. I don't know how the bank got the information from the
subscriber.
Q. Okay. How closely tied were you to the Spotlight calling
card?
A. Closely tied to it in what regard?
Q. To the business.
A. I really didn't know that much about the Spotlight calling
card business other than they were a customer, one of about 50.
Q. Did you sell this service to Spotlight, yourself?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Do you know who did?
A. I believe they were sold the service by an agent of CCT.
Q. Okay. And CCT was the subsidiary company, or the parent
John Kane - Cross
Q. Company?
A. Subsidiary company.
Q. Okay. Now, was there ever any billing for unanswered phone
calls?
A. No.
Q. Okay. So would that show up and have a CDR, or not?
A. There will be a CDR, yes.
Q. Will it show the beginning call as well as the number that
was called?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And the CDR is only for the termination of the call.
Is that correct?
A. There is an originating CDR and a terminating CDR.
Q. Okay. And every originating would have a terminating. Is
that correct?
A. Every originating would have a terminating, if there was a
terminating.
Q. Well, my question is if somebody hung up, would there be a
terminating?
A. It depends on when they hung up.
Q. Prior to the call being completed?
A. Yes -- no, there would not be a CDR.
Q. Okay. And there would not be any OPUS record, I would
assume, because it --
A. Again, it depends on when they hung up. If they
John Kane - Cross
successfully put in their PIN number, OPUS would have enough to
create a record.
Q. What was OPUS designed to do?
A. It was designed to keep track of PIN numbers and account
balances and to manage the process of the call.
Q. Was it mainly a billing-type process?
A. Yes.
Q. So it was not made to deal with terminating and originating
calls -- is that correct -- as far as numbers are concerned?
A. Other than keeping --
MR. GOELMAN: Objection. Comprehensibility of the
question: "deal with originating and terminating calls"?
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: The system kept track of the calling
activity based on where the call was made to but did not keep
track of where the call came from.
BY MS. RAMSEY:
Q. And that's why the 3911 record is necessary to complete the
loop. Is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. Okay. What methods do you use to gather the OPUS records
that you supply to the Government?
A. The OPUS records, we only -- you mean the Bridges records,
or the overall OPUS records?
Q. The overall OPUS records.
John Kane - Cross
A. The overall OPUS records, the 800 number related to a
program number within the OPUS system, the number happens to be
399, which is the unique numeric identifier within the system;
and we requested it from the OPUS system by typing it into a
keyboard. All the records associated with program No. 399.
Q. And you have access to all of OPUS records in order to do
that?
A. Sure.
Q. That's in the regular course of your business. Correct?
A. Correct.
Q. I believe in one of the records that the Government had in
front of you with regard to the number of the calls, is that
the number of calls you received from the OPUS system when you
first did your query?
A. The first query we did was only against the Bridges account
number.
Q. Okay. And then the second one that has the 4,000 and some
odd number --
A. 155,000.
Q. All right. Is that what you got when you did the second
query as far as OPUS is concerned?
A. Right.
Q. Okay. Now, did you supply all of that information to the
Government, or did you do something else with it prior to
giving it to the Government?
John Kane - Cross
A. Well, we did provide -- we provided all the information in
that raw format to the Government.
Q. All right. Did you do anything else with it prior to
giving it to the Government?
A. I don't understand.
Q. Did you do any analysis of it?
A. I did some analysis of it so that I could ascertain whether
or not we had records for every day and for all of the time
periods that were required.
Q. And did you print that out in a readable-type form?
A. We kept track of it in some notes.
Q. And does that OPUS record contain all of the calls placed
by Spotlight customers and only Spotlight customers?
A. It obtain -- it is the number of records that the system
kept track of. It is not all of the records that were made by
Spotlight customers.
Q. Explain that.
A. We talked before about the record from the 14th that's
missing in OPUS, an OPUS record. There are probably other OPUS
records that are missing from different Spotlight account
customers for the same reason.
Q. Okay. But only on that disk -- on that disk are only
Spotlight customers?
A. That's correct.
Q. Okay. And again, you never prepared anything like this
John Kane - Cross
from OPUS records before, have you?
A. We used to obtain records from the OPUS system from time to
time for different reasons to look at them, so this is normal,
relatively easy thing to get.
Q. Okay. And you prepared this at what time? Approximately
April 20?
A. I don't recall when we did this 155,000 records, but the
disks are dated that were submitted.
Q. All right. Has your looking at these records continued
since you were first contacted by the Government on that Friday
or Saturday after the bombing until -- when?
A. I've looked at these records many times during that period
of time.
Q. All right. But have you -- when was the last time that you
looked at the records?
A. Probably this morning.
Q. Okay. And did you do that for analysis purposes, or just
to answer a question that someone had asked you?
A. Did that more to refresh myself with the records.
Q. So when was the last time that you looked at the records to
do any analysis?
A. Several months ago.
Q. Now, I want to turn your attention to this problem with the
computer that you alluded to just a few minutes ago about a
malfunction and the dropping of a number. What would you call
John Kane - Cross
that?
A. I don't know what I'd call it. It's -- it's -- it was
intended to be a solution for a problem that unintentionally
created a second problem.
Q. What was it originally intended to do?
A. We from time to time were having a difficulty with the OPUS
hardware, where their system would stop processing calls,
essentially would lock up. It would just stop functioning.
And we didn't think this was a desirable feature, since
consumers couldn't make calls when this process was -- when the
system had locked up.
Q. How did you find out that the system had locked up?
A. Our 800 number would start ringing because customers would
start complaining.
Q. All right. But you did not receive a sign from the
computers that there was a problem?
A. Not at this -- not the way we had the system set up. There
wasn't somebody physically watching the machines while they
were working.
Q. And are you aware of any problems other than this one
record we talked about on April 14?
A. I'm aware that based on what I know about why that record
is missing -- I'm confident there are other records that are
also missing from the OPUS file.
Q. Would you agree that there might be perhaps 34 out of 209
John Kane - Cross
calls that are not in that area -- that are not in the records?
A. I would think that would be a disproportionate percentage.
Q. Too large, or too small?
A. Too large.
Q. And during this -- would you term this as a malfunction of
the computer?
A. The lost records, or the fact that the system was locking
up?
Q. Both.
A. System locking up was a definite malfunction in the
computer.
The records being lost was, as it turns out, by
design. The fix for the locking-up problem that the software
engineers implemented was a timed restart program that ran
three times a day and essentially restarted this computer to
prevent it from locking up.
Q. How many seconds would that restarting take?
A. I don't know.
Q. Okay. And during the time that the computer was
restarting, no records were kept in OPUS? Is that correct?
A. During the time that the computer was restarting, calls
that were in progress were discarded from a record standpoint.
Q. And so that would mean that OPUS would not have that record
to bill the customer; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
John Kane - Cross
Q. Okay. And after you -- was the first time that you
discovered this when you were checking with regard to this
particular phone call that you talked about?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. And has that since been corrected?
A. Yes, it has.
Q. And did you correct that, or --
A. OPUS Telecom corrected it.
Q. Corrected that problem?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, do the termination numbers in the field on the CDR
records look the same as the international calls?
A. Do the termination --
Q. Uh-huh. Can you tell by looking at a termination number if
it's an international call or not?
A. I can, yes.
Q. Okay. And do they look the same?
A. Well, they're numeric; but there are more digits, and they
all begin with a different sequence other than an area code.
Q. I think this morning I gave some information to Mr. Mackey;
and I believe you checked the computer with regard to some
Bridges calls sequence calls. Did you do that?
A. I believe there was five sequence numbers.
Q. Yes.
A. Only one of those was a Bridges call.
John Kane - Cross
Q. Okay. Did you check to see if the correct termination
numbers were given for those?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And were they correct, or not?
A. They are correct numbers, but they're not complete enough
to have resulted in a completed call.
Q. What does that mean?
A. It means that whoever put those numbers in either gave up
putting numbers during the call or had misdialed, was trying to
dial another number.
Q. And so they hung up before the call was completed?
A. Well, the call was never completed because there wasn't
enough information to complete the call. So when they hung up,
I couldn't tell you.
Q. But for some reason the call stops prior to being completed
to a number. Is that correct?
A. I believe that it would -- it would not have been completed
because there wasn't enough information to complete the call.
Q. And all of these numbers that I gave you were for domestic
calls. Is that correct?
A. The five call records all have terminating numbers that
begin with an international code but don't have enough digits
to have been completed internationally or anyplace else.
Q. Are you aware of problems with the OPUS system with regard
to calls being placed for February 12 or April 16?
John Kane - Cross
A. I'm not sure. What year?
Q. 1995.
A. I'm not certain of any specific problem.
Q. Calls being deleted or termination -- termination numbers
being incorrect?
MR. GOELMAN: Your Honor, can we break these questions
up?
THE COURT: All right.
BY MS. RAMSEY:
Q. Are you aware of any problems with regard to the deletion
of records in the OPUS system between February 12 and April 16
of 1995?
A. I'm aware that there were records that were not kept that
we just discussed.
Q. Any others than what we've just discussed?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Okay. How many OPUS computers operated in the -- how many
OPUS computers operated on the Bridges account? Would that be
the five that are on here?
A. At least five, yes.
Q. And how many more might there be?
A. At different times, the central computer in the middle of
the picture was -- there were either one of those or two of
those, for redundancy purposes.
Q. Now, is there a computer with regard to the 3911 records?
John Kane - Cross
A. The 3911 records, yes.
Q. And is there a computer with the 3910 records?
A. Same computer.
Q. All right. And there are five or more computers with OPUS?
A. Yes.
Q. And is there a computer with regard to No. 1, which is the
telephone in your home or wherever to the local phone company?
A. Yes.
Q. And is there a computer with regard to 2 and 3?
A. Yes.
Q. And is there a computer with regard to 7?
A. Yes.
Q. All of these systems are with different agencies; is that
correct, or different businesses?
A. Some, yes.
Q. And can you tell us whether the clocks are synchronized on
all of these computers?
A. I can tell you they're not.
Q. Can you tell me how much they're off?
A. Different amounts at different times, I'm certain.
Q. When you were doing this matching as far as the records
were concerned, wouldn't you agree that the time of the call
and the termination of the call are very critical?
A. No. Actually, I wouldn't agree.
Q. Why not?
John Kane - Cross
A. Because the -- I was matching based on the port information
first and the date -- the date and the port; and we really
never found the circumstance to the extent we matched any calls
at all that the -- that there were two calls that could have
been acceptable to be matched.
Q. You never found when there were two calls that could be
acceptable to the matched?
A. They wouldn't be within even a close range of time.
Q. Well, when you first began your reporting, didn't you have
a window of error of plus or minus 4 minutes in order to
determine which calls matched?
A. Well, we didn't match in that method.
Q. Did you or have you ever told the Government that you
matched with plus or minus 4 minutes?
A. We told the Government that we -- we provided raw
information to the Government. The matching process that we
did or the summary of that information that we kept was a
method of keeping track of whether or not we had obtained all
of the 3911's or 3910 records.
Q. So it -- the plus or minus 4-minute window has nothing to
do with the timing of the phone calls?
A. It has to do with an assessment that the Government made
with respect to the clocks in these various computers once they
studied the issue. I don't know what they did.
Q. All right. But obviously, you cannot match the calls
John Kane - Cross
perfectly, or you wouldn't need a plus or minus 4-minute
window; is that correct?
MR. GOELMAN: Objection. He just testified that he
had no 4-minute window.
THE COURT: Well, do I understand -- if I may.
MS. RAMSEY: Certainly, your Honor.
THE COURT: Do I understand that you made no effort in
your work to match times?
THE WITNESS: No, we really didn't.
THE COURT: Okay.
MS. RAMSEY: Okay.
BY MS. RAMSEY:
Q. But you understand that the Government did do that?
A. Yes.
Q. So when you did your matching, what did you look at?
A. We looked at the port, the date first -- we looked at a
date first, then the ports to make sure that they matched; and
then we looked at the duration of the call, if there were more
than one calls to the same port on the same day.
Q. And did the duration of the calls always match exactly?
A. No.
Q. Did they ever match?
A. Most of the time, they were pretty similar.
Q. Why were they dissimilar?
A. Because each of these systems begins counting time at
John Kane - Cross
different points in the call.
Q. And that -- would that account for the difference in the
times of the computers?
A. No. The times in the computers were different because the
human who set the time when they typed it in set the time off
of their watch, or whatever, and they didn't coordinate the
times between any of these devices.
Q. Okay. So you looked at the ports and something else in
order to match these?
A. We looked at the date first, obtained all the calls from
that date. Then we looked for calls on certain ports based on
the OPUS port number.
Q. Now, when you were told to check certain calls, those were
from the Bridges account. Is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. The Daryl Bridges account?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. And how did you discover what numbers were usually called?
I believe you said on direct examination --
A. What numbers were usually called?
Q. Uh-huh.
A. I don't recall saying --
Q. It's my understanding -- and I haven't been in the industry
as you have -- you looked at numbers that had previously been
called by the Bridges account.
John Kane - Cross
A. No. What we looked at was all of the telephone numbers
that had ever been called by any of the Spotlight users.
Q. And then from there you reduced that down to the Daryl
Bridges account?
A. No. First we started with obtaining the Daryl Bridges
account information based on the one call that we were -- that
we matched to the -- as a result of the call we matched to the
Dreamland Motel. We obtained the Daryl Bridges account code
and obtained those records.
We subsequently obtained all of the Spotlight records.
Q. For all of the Spotlight callers?
A. For all the Spotlight callers.
Q. Okay. Do you recall appearing on "Nightline" or
"Dateline" -- "Dateline" on August 11 and saying that this was
like finding a needle in a haystack?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you still agree with that at this point?
A. Yes.
THE COURT: What's like finding a needle in a
haystack?
THE WITNESS: Well, we had 2 1/2 billion calls. We
were looking for 686. I thought that was the relationship.
BY MS. RAMSEY:
Q. Is it correct and would you agree that the matched calls
for the non-Los-Angeles-switched calls were more difficult than
John Kane - Cross
the LA switch?
A. Yes.
Q. And would you agree that in some instances the timing on
the OPUS computers were incorrect?
A. Incorrect in what regard?
Q. Not synchronized?
A. Not synchronized doesn't mean they're incorrect.
Q. All right. You would agree they weren't synchronized?
A. Yes.
Q. And because of that timing that it was -- this OPUS was not
designed to trace these calls from beginning to end. Is that
correct?
A. It had nothing to do with the time. It had to do with the
fact that the information wasn't available to OPUS. They
didn't have the originating telephone number.
Q. Has the system been changed now so that OPUS does have that
information?
A. I don't know. It was not changed at the time I was
involved with the system.
Q. Are you involved with the system today?
A. No, I'm not.
Q. Not at all?
A. Other than for this trial.
Q. You are no longer employed with this company; is that
correct?
John Kane - Cross
A. That's correct.
Q. This is the business that you sold?
A. Well, I sold it to WCT. I became an employee of WCT. Then
WCT sold its company to another company. And I left the
company when it was sold.
Q. Okay. Now, you were asked on direct examination with
regard to the phone calls to the Spotlight office, so to speak,
with problems?
A. I'm sorry. I didn't understand.
Q. You were asked on direct examination about problems with
the Spotlight card.
A. Problems with the Spotlight card?
Q. Uh-huh. When someone would call and say, Something is
wrong with my card.
A. Yes.
Q. Were you ever involved in any of that?
A. Not personally.
Q. Okay. And would you -- do you know that if there was a
problem with the card as far as someone else using that card,
would that also be the number that was called?
A. The 800 -- the customer service number?
Q. Yes.
A. That's the only number the customer had, yes.
Q. Are you aware of -- since you've been in the telephone
industry so long -- what they call "freaking"?
John Kane - Cross
A. Sure.
Q. What is that?
A. That's in some cases also referred to as "hacking," where
people will illegally enter different people's computer systems
to either -- either for the joy of doing it, or for criminal
purpose, stealing time.
Q. Is it pretty common?
A. Yes, it is, actually.
Q. It's a large loss to your industry; is that correct?
A. Yes, it is generally.
Q. Do you know from the Spotlight calling card, is it illegal
to -- for two or more people to have the same PIN number?
A. Not illegal.
Q. Is it sometimes usual for other than one person to have the
calling card PIN number?
A. It's not unusual, no.
Q. What is "shoulder surfing"?
A. "Shoulder surfing" is when someone will stand near a bank
of pay phones, look over the person's shoulder, and write down
the numbers that the person is dialing.
Q. And that -- would that be in the same category with
freaking as far as losses are concerned?
A. Same general concept but different methodology.
Q. Is that also something that is common?
A. Yes, it is.
John Kane - Cross
Q. Who kept the 3910 records?
A. Who kept them?
Q. Uh-huh.
A. WCT.
Q. So that was part -- the 3911 and 3910 are both WCT records?
A. Well, WCT kept all the records because all of these things
were part of WCT's overall business.
Q. And did you retrieve those records in the same manner or
fashion that you have testified with regard to the 3911
records?
A. No. The 3910's were retrieved in a different method, which
I think I explained before.
Q. And I don't recall what that was.
A. What we did was we went -- took all of the telephone
numbers that any Spotlight user had ever called and created a
database from those telephone numbers. Then we took that
database of telephone -- dialed telephone numbers and we
compared it against the 3910 file, a very, very large 3910
file; and from that large 3910 file, we carved out those
records which matched the numbers that had ever been called by
any Spotlight user with the exception of the one record that we
talked about separately.
Q. Is this when you conducted the second query, or is that
earlier?
A. I don't understand the question.
John Kane - Cross
Q. Well, I believe at first you said that you conducted just a
general query about Spotlight callers and then you did a second
query with regard to Daryl Bridges?
A. We did -- well, that doesn't really have anything to do
with the 3910.
Q. What does it have to do with?
A. All right. We initially found a call from the Dreamland
Motel to the 800 number which let us identify the Daryl Bridges
account as having made that call. We subsequently were
requested to provide all of the telephone calls to the 800
number for the Spotlight calling program as well.
Q. And when did you notice -- or I believe you testified on
direct as well as cross that you noticed this problem with
regard to the starting or restarting when you went back through
these records. Did you check to see how long that had been a
problem?
A. The records-being-discarded-by-the-system problem?
Q. Yes. Uh-huh.
A. I found out based on the investigation that we ran, that
had been changed in the system, I believe, many months before;
so it had been there for quite some time.
Q. Now, I want to turn your attention to Exhibit No. 517 and
to No. -- Page No. 44. I believe that's the call that we've
been discussing -- that you discussed earlier.
A. Yes.
John Kane - Cross
MS. RAMSEY: All right.
Your Honor, may I publish that?
THE COURT: Yes.
BY MS. RAMSEY:
Q. Now, you testified on direct examination -- and I wrote
down what you said -- that you had spent quite a bit of time
with regard to trying to trace this call. Is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. How much time would you say that you had spent trying to
trace this call -- or would you call it trace?
A. We were trying to find the subscriber in the Spotlight
system for quite some time, yes.
Q. How many -- how long had you been trying to find that?
A. I think -- well, that was after we had this record is when
we began looking for that. And we probably spent four or five
hours on that -- on that issue and then several hours in a
telephone conference call with Jay Gainsboro and some of his
software engineers.
Q. When did you retrieve this CDR record? Do you know?
A. I believe this one was retrieved on the 21st of April.
Q. That is the date that is in the upper left-hand corner?
A. Yes.
Q. 4-21-95?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you look at this record when you retrieved it on
John Kane - Cross
April 21 of 1995?
A. Yes.
Q. Did it have any significance to you necessarily at that
time?
A. Yes, it did.
Q. Okay. And what is the phone number that you looked at and
pointed out on this exhibit that shows you it is a -- or where
it would generally be that this is a Bridges call?
A. Up in the top of the -- actually, I can point to it here.
There is a 3910 -- is the trunk group that the -- that
the switch received the call, that the call came in on from the
switch and further came in on port No. 21468, which is right
next to the trunk group.
Q. So you can tell that a call came into the 800 number; is
that correct?
A. No, I could tell a call came in from the debit card system
on this record.
Q. Into the OPUS --
A. Into WCT. This is coming from OPUS into WCT.
Q. And that would be the 3910?
A. That's correct.
Q. Okay. But you cannot tell who made that call?
A. No, I can't.
Q. And what PIN number was used?
A. No, I can't. Not from this record.
John Kane - Cross
Q. Have you ever found any record that shows the PIN number?
A. For this particular call?
Q. Yes.
A. No.
Q. And did you check to see what number 800-927-9738 belonged
to? That would be the bill number.
A. Yeah. That's an internal billing number. That has nothing
to do with the numbers that were dialed for the call.
Q. I understand that, but did you try to determine who held
that number?
A. No.
Q. Can you tell in your investigation and trying to retrieve
these -- the information with regard to this call -- were you
told -- or I'm sorry. Let me back up before I ask that
question.
What time was this call made according to your
records?
A. This call was made at 7:53:57 West Coast time at the top.
Q. A.M.?
A. Yes. It's military time.
Q. And so that would be West Coast time, you said?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you ever told in your investigation with regard to
this case that the person receiving the call, Vicki Beemer,
said it came in between 10:30 and 11:00 a.m.?
John Kane - Cross
A. No.
MR. GOELMAN: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Why?
MR. GOELMAN: There is no good-faith basis to think
that he would know that.
THE COURT: Well, there is a good-faith basis for the
question.
MR. GOELMAN: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled.
BY MS. RAMSEY:
Q. You may answer the question.
A. No.
Q. So in other words, what you're telling us is that you don't
know on any of these calls that you matched who placed the call
or who received the call?
A. I did not know at the time, no.
Q. I mean on any calls, physically who called and who received
the call?
A. No. Who answered the phone, you mean?
Q. Right.
A. No. I know the person potentially who owned the telephone,
but that's all.
Q. You don't know who actually placed the call, do you?
A. No.
Q. And it could be anyone who had the PIN number for the Daryl
John Kane - Cross
Bridges account.
A. That's correct.
Q. Legally or illegally; correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. It could have been Daryl Bridges or anyone else; is that
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you don't have any idea who received any of these
calls, do you?
A. No.
Q. And do you have any idea what their conversations were with
regard to these telephone calls?
A. No.
MS. RAMSEY: No further questions, your Honor.
THE COURT: Any redirect?
MR. GOELMAN: Yes, your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. On cross-examination, you talked a bit about a process that
you described as tedious or difficult.
A. Yes.
Q. And you were talking about a particular kind of matching
process. Is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. In preparation for the records that you provided to the
John Kane - Redirect
Government that you've already identified have been introduced
into evidence, what exactly did you -- did you have to go
through a matching process in order to retrieve those records?
A. Went through a matching to see -- to make sure that we had
obtained all of the records that related to the request.
Q. Is that the same process that you described on
cross-examination?
A. I believe so.
Q. You were asked questions about the call on 4-14 and the
missing record from OPUS Telecom.
A. Yes.
Q. Did you do research into this particular process that OPUS
computers did?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you know what time of the day the OPUS system would
do the restart and purge its memory?
A. It was three times a day, and I believe it began -- it was
8 -- 8:00 and then -- in the morning and did it midnight and
once at 4 in the afternoon, I believe. I'm not sure.
Q. On cross-examination you were asked if 34 out of 209 would
be an average record -- number of records for mistakes in WCT's
records, I believe.
A. I'm --
Q. You were given the proportion of 34 out of 209. Do you
remember that proportion?
John Kane - Redirect
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have any idea about mistakes in WCT records and what
proportion they would be to the mass of WCT records?
A. It would have to be a relatively small percentage. I have
no idea what it would be, though.
Q. Is there anything about the way the debit card system
worked, Mr. Kane, that would make it difficult to connect
international phone calls?
A. Actually, one of the costs associated with providing the
service is the costs for 800 service that we would pay; and if
a subscriber would dial into the prepaid calling platform and
not complete a call within, I believe, it was 72 seconds, we
would disconnect the caller to try to save some costs, assuming
that they had no ability to get through.
Q. And did you receive some complaints from debit card
customers about this particular feature?
A. Yes, we would occasionally.
Q. You answered some questions on cross-examination about plus
or minus 4-minute time windows and what relevance a particular
phone call's time had to the reconstruction process.
A. Yes.
Q. And I think you answered a question from his Honor that you
didn't -- you did not use the time of the phone call when you
were matching records. Is that right?
A. Not specifically, no.
John Kane - Redirect
Q. Were you nevertheless able to conduct this matching
process?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you have a basic understanding of the process that
the Government used to do its own reconstruction?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And do you know whether or not time was a factor that the
Government used in its process?
A. I believe they did.
Q. And have you reviewed the basic methodology that the
Government used to construct its summary?
A. Yes.
Q. And what is your opinion about the validity of that
methodology?
A. I think it's -- it's pretty good.
Q. Pretty good?
A. Well, it's a very complex -- it's a very complex
methodology, but they went through a lot of research into the
records to obtain --
THE COURT: I suggest we wait for the proper witness
on this.
MR. GOELMAN: Yes, your Honor.
BY MR. GOELMAN:
Q. Do you know why the duration field might be slightly
different in the different WCT and OPUS records?
John Kane - Redirect
A. Each of the systems creates its own independent record, so
it -- the systems count time based on what their each
individual billing piece of the call would include.
Q. Can you explain that a little bit further? Why would the
duration be different?
A. Well, the duration in the 3911 record is going to be longer
than the duration of the OPUS record, because the duration of
the OPUS record -- it only takes into account the duration from
the time OPUS begins to try to make the outbound call. And the
record -- the 3910 record will have a different duration,
probably shorter, because it will only have a duration from the
time the OPUS transaction begins till the OPUS transaction ends
for that particular call; so 3911 is always going to be longer
in duration than the 3910 or the OPUS record, because there is
processing time that's not billed for and not tracked that way.
Q. Mr. Kane, you were also asked some questions about security
issues on cross-examination: hacking, freaking, shoulder
surfing. You're familiar with all those terms?
A. Yes, I am.
Q. Is that something that everybody in the telecommunications
industry has to face?
A. It's part of the industry, yes.
Q. And do you know if the debit card platform that you
designed had any precautions designed to make it harder to
commit that kind of fraud?
John Kane - Redirect
A. Yeah. There were some features in the system that allowed
that if you did not put the correct PIN number in within three
attempts, the system would disconnect you, so you'd have to
dial back into the 800 number and try three more times again to
get a valid PIN number. If you didn't, it would disconnect
again.
Q. Is hacking, freaking -- are they big problems in the debit
card part of the industry as compared to the credit card,
calling, or other kinds of phone billing?
A. Actually, they're significantly less of a problem in the
prepaid calling environment. The prepaid calling cards have a
fixed number of dollars associated with them and generally
small amounts, 20, 50, $100.
A hacker would prefer to spend his time trying to
steal a calling card number, where he may be able to get 5- or
600 or 5- or $6,000 worth of activity before he's discovered.
He would just literally run out of money, so -- on the calling
card -- on the debit card, if he hacked a debit card number.
Q. Mr. Kane, I'm going to ask you to turn back one more time
to page 44 of Government's Exhibit 517. Now, just for the
record, can you read when this call began according to this
3910?
A. 7:53:57.
Q. And does that mean that's the time that the caller actually
picked up the pay phone, or whatever phone it was?
John Kane - Redirect
A. This is -- the time point at which this transaction began
here for the OPUS system -- began to try to make a telephone
call through the WCT switch.
Q. Okay. I believe that you talked about this phone call
starting at an earlier time on direct examination. You
indicated it was 7:53 and 33 seconds, I believe.
A. Well, that would -- that call was this call on this side,
on the 3911, which is on page 43 of the record. That one began
at 7:53:33.
Q. So the times reference different points in the process that
the phone call takes before it actually goes through?
A. Yes.
Q. Finally, Mr. Kane, do you see the number that you were
asked about on cross-examination, 800-927-9738?
A. Yes.
Q. I believe Ms. Ramsey asked you whose account number that
was or who that was billed to?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you explain a little bit? Is that number a Spotlight
customer other than Daryl Bridges?
A. No. That's an internal billing code number that WCT uses
for other purposes, for keeping track of time in the network
and whatnot.
Q. Does it have any relevance at all to determining which
particular Spotlight card was used to make this particular
John Kane - Redirect
phone call?
A. No, it has nothing at all to do with it.
MR. GOELMAN: One moment, your Honor.
Nothing further, your Honor.
THE COURT: Just on this page 24 again, that time
7:53:57 would be the time according to the particular computer.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: The same computer as the page before.
THE COURT: Yes. But whether the computer's time
corresponds to the actual time that somebody initiated the
call, we don't know.
THE WITNESS: We don't.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. GOELMAN: Thank you, your Honor.
MS. RAMSEY: I just have a couple of questions.
THE COURT: All right.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. RAMSEY:
Q. Is the 7:53:57 network time?
A. 7:53:57 is the time that the WCT switch recorded this call
West Coast time.
Q. And would you agree with the statement that the exact time
information is normally not a critical issue in the day-to-day
operations of the debit card system?
John Kane - Recross
A. Yes, I would.
Q. Okay. When you were just questioned by Mr. Goelman, you
said that the -- this was a very complex methodology and that
the 3911 is always longer.
A. Than the OPUS record.
Q. Yes.
A. Yes.
Q. Is that a consistent time that is longer?
A. Not necessarily.
Q. So when you're matching these numbers with ports and all
the things that you do, you do not -- you have to make some
decisions as to which number to pick; is that correct?
A. You could, if you had gotten to that level. But we never
ran into that.
Q. You would agree that there are errors in the system?
A. Errors in the system?
Q. 3911, 3910, and OPUS.
A. I don't understand what you mean by "errors."
Q. Any kind of errors, such as the restarting error or
dropping of PIN numbers. There are errors in this system. Is
that correct?
A. I don't think that the dropping of the -- I don't know what
you mean by dropping of PIN numbers. But the records that were
discarded by the system were actually discarded by design --
bad design, but by design.
John Kane - Recross
Q. You wouldn't consider that an error?
A. But not with the records.
Q. Well, if you're OPUS and you're billing on those records
and they're being discarded so OPUS is losing money on those
calls, wouldn't you say that was an error?
A. No. I'd say it was a design problem. We shouldn't have
designed it to work that way.
Q. All right. Is there an error in the design of the system,
then?
A. Absolutely.
Q. All right.
MS. RAMSEY: Thank you.
MR. GOELMAN: No questions, your Honor.
THE COURT: Are you going to have him back?
MS. RAMSEY: I could say I hope not, your Honor.
THE COURT: Are you excusing this witness?
MR. GOELMAN: Yes, your Honor.
MS. RAMSEY: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. You are excused. Thank you.
We'll recess a little bit early, since we don't really
have time to get started with another witness at this point;
so, members of the jury, once again, of course you're excused
to go your individual and separate ways.
Well, they don't have to be separate ways. They can
be your own choice; but, of course, continue to follow the
cautions that are regularly given and you get tired of hearing.
But you know I have to say on the record that you've got to
continue to be very careful, avoiding anything that may appear
in any publications or telecasts, broadcasts of any kind
relating to any of the issues that are before you in this
trial. And, of course, do not discuss the case or anything
about it with any other persons, including other jurors.
You're excused till 9:00 tomorrow morning.
(Jury out at 4:58 p.m.)
THE COURT: I have these briefs that have been
submitted in connection with this record material, but I think
it's really premature to discuss that until we get the --
actually, the way in which the Government's program was put
together, the things that he started on and I sort of cut off
here. But until we have that methodology in testimony, I don't
think that it's meaningful to discuss the issue.
And of course, with respect to this question of what
comes within the business records exception to hearsay depends
upon what it is that the exhibits offer. I mean, I don't
expect the exhibit to be offered to identify the callers or the
recipients of the call, assuming that it's going to be for
purposes of how these circuits came together and what was
recorded here by these different computers in generating the
data that will then be reflected in a summary exhibit.
Again, it depends on how it's offered; so I think it's
premature for us to follow through with an oral argument in the
morning.
Do you see it the same way?
MR. MACKEY: Yes, I do, your Honor.
MS. RAMSEY: We would agree with that, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. So we'll see where we are and
at what point we need to discuss the law on that; but again, I
think it depends a great deal on what it's offered for.
MR. MACKEY: Judge, just in the way of orientation,
our order of proof contemplates we'll call a series of
telephone business custodians from about 27 different companies
solely for the purpose of putting into evidence business
records from those companies that Mr. Dexter --
THE COURT: Showing subscriber numbers.
MR. MACKEY: Precisely.
THE COURT: I mean subscribers to telephone numbers.
MR. MACKEY: That's right. The name information that
Mr. Kane's records did not have.
THE COURT: All right. And then you're going to have
somebody who put it together with -- and describe the
methodology by which the proposed exhibits were created.
MR. MACKEY: In as much detail as the Court would like
to hear, yes.
THE COURT: Well, I think it's in as much detail as
necessary to determine whether it's admissible, obviously.
MR. MACKEY: Understood.
MS. RAMSEY: We understand, your Honor.
MR. MACKEY: Looking ahead, the ultimate exhibit that
the Government would offer into evidence is Exhibit 554, which
is, to answer the Court's question, offered solely to
reconstruct the activity, the phone activity on the Daryl
Bridges account for the period defined by the conspiracy only.
THE COURT: Yes. And then you necessarily have to
rely on other evidence to attempt to show or to create an
inference as to who the caller was.
MR. MACKEY: Some of that has already been presented
in the course of this case.
THE COURT: Yeah. But the exhibit is not going to
attempt to reflect that, and neither is the witness who is
presenting the exhibit.
MR. MACKEY: We, in fact, have had conversations with
the defense about designing the summary in such a way that it
would be neutral in that fashion. That --
THE COURT: How did you get along with that?
MR. MACKEY: It took more than one meeting, Judge.
THE COURT: What's the number of the exhibit?
MR. MACKEY: 554 is the summary that Mr. Dexter would
identify as the work product.
THE COURT: Well, I might peek ahead at 554.
MS. RAMSEY: Last page of the book, your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. JONES: Your Honor, I think also in the brief, and
while the Court is peeking ahead, the Tenth Circuit McIntyre
case --
THE COURT: Yes. You've mentioned that in the briefs,
and I'm aware of that case.
Okay. So we'll recess till 9:00 in the morning.
MS. RAMSEY: We do not need to be here at 8?
THE COURT: That's right. I don't think there is any
point in talking about the law until we know what the exhibit
methodology was.
MR. MACKEY: May I take up one other logistical matter
just to give the Court an idea of how we plan to present the
next series of witnesses?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. MACKEY: These 27 witnesses really will be working
from two exhibits, Exhibit 520 and Exhibit 521; and what we've
done to expedite their presentation is to put together a group
exhibit; so 520 is a compilation of all of those business
records from those companies. And what we've done in the way
of presenting those witnesses is simply asked them before they
come to the stand to review certain pages. And each are
numbered in the exhibit, and they can, having been prepped,
say, Those are the business records of my company. So we'll
offer those individual pages based on the foundation laid by
each individual witness but not offer the entire exhibit until
and unless we have satisfied the Court we've done so.
THE COURT: I understand.
That's agreeable to you, isn't it?
MS. RAMSEY: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. And we'll get a conveyor belt out
there.
MR. MACKEY: Two notebooks, Judge.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. MACKEY: Thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT: Recess, 9:00.
(Recess at 5:05 p.m.)
* * * * *
INDEX
Item Page
WITNESSES
Steven Soto
Direct Examination by Mr. Goelman
Cross-examination by Ms. Ramsey
Teresa Eastman
Direct Examination by Mr. Goelman
Cross-examination by Ms. Ramsey
John Kane
Direct Examination by Mr. Goelman
Cross-examination by Ms. Ramsey
John Kane (continued)
Redirect Examination by Mr. Goelman
Recross-examination by Ms. Ramsey
PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBITS
Exhibit Offered Received Refused Reserved Withdrawn
489
489 7187 7188
504 7207 7207
505 7210 7210
507 7217 7217
508 7219 7220
509 7231 7234
510
511 7224 7224
512 7225 7228
513 7240 7240
514 7254 7255
515 7241 7241
516 7256 7256
517 7251 7251
518 7259 7259
* * * * *
REPORTERS' CERTIFICATE
We certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from
the record of proceedings in the above-entitled matter. Dated
at Denver, Colorado, this 6th day of May, 1997.
_______________________________
Paul Zuckerman
_______________________________
Bonnie Carpenter